Two Deuces Down--Hydrostatic Lock?

[DeuceIsLoose]

Hey Gents,

I thought I'd continue a previous thread in a new one--for reference sake, it was titled "Don't Let Your Brother in Law Drive Your Deuce".

Here's the situation...

Three weeks ago my in-laws had a big mudding party in Texas. I had both of my deuces there and drove them hard--lots of rpms with little air going through the radiators. Neither of them got above 215 degrees. Each time I came out of the mud pit, I let them cool down for at least 10 mins before shutting them off.

Late in the day, my brother in law was driving one of them and "it just stopped" on him. We pulled it out, tried to crank it, but all the starter did was make a thud--i.e. the engine didn't turn over at all. When we pulled it out, there was a little bit of antifreeze coming out of the radiator overflow. But those are the only symptoms.

The next day I tried starting it and again all I got was a thud from the starter. I also drove my other deuce the next day just to make sure it didn't suffer the same failure and it ran perfectly fine.

When I got back I asked for help and everyone thought it was hydrostatically locked up from a head gasket failing and water filling up one of the cylinders. Everyone said to take the injectors out and try turning it over.

Ok, last weekend was three weeks from the mudding party and I finally made it back to Texas. I pulled the injectors out of the locked up truck, inspected them and found no fluid anywhere on them. I tried to crank the engine, but all I got was another thud from the starter.

What made things much worse, was I tried to start my other deuce and it was now locked up too. So I pulled those injectors out too, found nothing on them, and tried cranking it. Again, all the starter did was make a thud.

I'm pretty bummed out, because now I've got 2 dueces down. I realize water could have been in the cylinders for up to three weeks and may have caused some rust, but I would think the starter could still crank the engine if the injectors were out.

Whatever it is, it is a systematic failure and again the other one was running fine the day after the party, so somehow it locked up afterwards. The oil and antifreeze look fine and are at proper levels.

Any thoughts??? Sorry for the saga, but I'd really like to get them running again.

Thanks for any advice and take care.

Donnie

 

[combat32]

Maybe the starter's just went T U, were they underwater?

 

[Nonotagain]

Got anything big enough to push the deuce with? How about a pull start and jump the clutch.

Good possibility that the starters got wet and possibly seized in place.

Drop starter but leave the electrical hooked up and see if the batteries will allow starter to spin.

 

[m16ty]

I have no idea but if you had a head gasket issue you would be able to tell with water in the cylinders and or the oil. Have you tried to pull start them to make sure the trucks don't just have starter issues? Was there water in the mud hole or just mud? If the engine hydrosaticly stalled while running more than likely you have bent rods.

 

[derby]

Were the plugs in the bottom of the bell housing? You could have a bellhousing full of mud. Take a look in there. Does the trans and clutch feel "right". have you tried to rock the engine back and forth with the fan blade. How deep was the mud?

 

[FMJ]

Were the plugs in the bottom of the bell housing? You could have a bellhousing full of mud. Take a look in there. Does the trans and clutch feel "right". have you tried to rock the engine back and forth with the fan blade. How deep was the mud?

 

[nosliw]

maybe a dumb question, but did you check the batteries on deuce #2 that was running when parked?

 

[G-Force]

Try turning the crank with a breaker bar and socket off the vibration damper on the front of the engine with the injectors out. This will tell you if the engine is locked up. If you can get it to turn two full revolutions then i would suspect the starter or batteries. the starter and batteries are wishful thinking though. I would not try and pull/push start it until you confirm the crank is free otherwise you might make the situation worse.

 

[OPCOM]

rock the engine with the fan blade?? C'mon, mine don't budge..

 

[Westex]

I vote with GForce on this one. Socket to the dampner with a big @$$ flex handle, rotate engine with injectors out and if they spit anything, you were (obviously) hydrolocked. I'm tending to think, though, with this symptomatic as to two deuces doing the same thing, it's electrical. Both deuces in the same environment, lots of mud and water.....Smoke good, fire bad; water good but bad for electrical starters. Hydrolock is much more common on carbureted gassers than diesels. But it is possible if you overheated and blew head gaskets and hydrolocked on coolant. But, as a final thought, remember these trucks did Vietnam just fine.

 

[DeuceIsLoose]

Well, it was definitely very muddy and wet. So there's a good chance the starters got pretty wet, but I thought they could handle a good amount of water? And, they do make a thud sound like they're trying to turn but can't. So it doesn't seem like they are the likely culprit but I'm also running out of culprits. Also, the first one, just died in the mud--or at least that's what he told me.

All batteries were good on both.

I had been hesitating to try a pull start because I was afraid if they were hydrostatically locked and pulling them would only do lots of damage.

 

[stumps]

Try turning the crank with a breaker bar and socket off the vibration damper on the front of the engine with the injectors out. This will tell you if the engine is locked up. If you can get it to turn two full revolutions then i would suspect the starter or batteries. the starter and batteries are wishful thinking though. I would not try and pull/push start it until you confirm the crank is free otherwise you might make the situation worse.

Remember these are diesels, and can start when you crank them with a breaker bar!

Be sure you follow G-Forces instructions to the letter, and take the injectors out!

-Chuck

 

[Speddmon]

Was this mud hole fairly deep? Someone already mentioned the drain plugs in the bottom of the bell housing. That's where I would start. If you were playing in the mud without the plugs in you could have a bell housing full of mud and other nasty things. Pull the rectangular access panel from the bottom of the bell housing and take a look see. the mud could have worked it's way up into the starter bell and be blocking things up....it could just be a simple matter of having to pull the transmissions and cleaning everything.

 

[UncleJim67]

This definitely sounds like a starter issue to me. The "thunk" is the starter drive engaging the flywheel but the starter motor is not turning. Try tapping the starter while someone is trying to start it. Mud probably got into the starter and is fouling the contacts for the solenoid or the brushes in the starter motor.

 

[derby]

Opcom, Hey what can I say, Some guy's have bigger pipes than others. but i guess if it were a real tight engine it would not rock with the blade. I would say 9 out of 10 of the engines I have tried it on would move back and forth. One more thought ,if it was really beat on ,it could have broke a few plates loose in the batts?

 

[rideni]

be careful tapping with a hammer, I've had some arc welding fun while doing that. Thats why I have a crappy harbor freight hammer wrapped in electrical tape

 

[DeuceIsLoose]

Hey Gents,

Thanks for writing back--I've been without internet for a few weeks.

Do you think I should take the whole starter assembly off to inspect it or try to monkey with it on the truck?

I've got three weeks before I'm back on the farm, but I'll try then.

Thanks again for all of the help.

Donnie

 

[Keith_J]

try turning the crank with a breaker bar and socket off the vibration damper on the front of the engine with the injectors out. This will tell you if the engine is locked up. If you can get it to turn two full revolutions then i would suspect the starter or batteries. The starter and batteries are wishful thinking though. I would not try and pull/push start it until you confirm the crank is free otherwise you might make the situation worse.

do not do that unless the engine kill is pulled!

 

[Keith_J]

Hey Gents,

Thanks for writing back--I've been without internet for a few weeks.

Do you think I should take the whole starter assembly off to inspect it or try to monkey with it on the truck?

I've got three weeks before I'm back on the farm, but I'll try then.

Thanks again for all of the help.

Donnie

First check batteries and connections. Then measure voltage at the batteries as you try to start. I am betting ground connection is bad, take off and clean, behind battery box.

 

[G-Force]

do not do that unless the engine kill is pulled!

HUH??????
Why......pray tell........would you have to have the stop pulled out??????