Upgraded deuce's tires to Goodyear G177 11.00R20s (dualed)

[Valence]

Previously I had been aiming to go Michelin XL 11.00R20's in the rear and with Michelin XL 14.5R20 in the front (super single) on A3 wheels. Well, as most things: price, availability, and distance kept getting in the way. This past week end I was blessed to find a couple of deals for G177 11.00R20 tires (a good/decent prices on tires generally hard to find near/in Utah), with a few to spare for my M816. So I jumped in with both feet, and made a whirlwind drive to Star Valley Wyoming, picked up 4 siped tires on deuce wheels and then back to Logan, UT for 14 more tires on 5-ton wheels (I believe they're called bud wheels?).

This was a big "wish list" item for me, and a huge change!

I absolutely recommend Jack's Tire and Oil in Logan, UT in every way. I do not casually trust business working on my vehicles. However, Ryan in the truck shop and his crew are really good folks, professional, and treated me overly well on the bill. They dismounted 18 tires and remounted 9 for my deuce and M105 trailer. The date-code on the tires that I looked at (I did not inspect all date codes) indicate the oldest to be made in early 2000 and newest in late 2007. However, all the tires were "like new" with the nubs and rubber molding flaps. No cracking at all. The folks at Jack's said on regular passenger car tires they will refuse to mount them if they're over 7 years old as the sidewall deteriorates and can split when mounting. I assume they use a different gauge on truck tires. They said the tires look great.

I would still like to do caster adjustment via the methods I've read in a few threads, such as:
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...caster-angle-solved-problems-with-G-177-tires

However, my truck was still very drivable, but on the speedometer (which is now incorrect of course) anything above 45mph feels hairy and the poorer roads demand slower speeds for me to feel comfortable with the handling. I drove home with about 74 PSI in the fronts and 70 PSI in the rears. I think I will lower the fronts to 70, and the rears obviously did not have full tread contact even with the load of old tires and wheels in the back. I will lower the rear tires to at least to 60 PSI, perhaps 50-55 PSI.

I most certainly did notice the slower acceleration from the larger tires. I also had to shift down to 3rd to manage some hills I was just able to do in 4th when on the stock 9.00R20s. However, I still feel the tires are superior in every way! I normally do not operate my truck in the winter here in Utah, but the G177's are Mud & Snow rated tires so I will feel much less... sick? worried?... if I need to. That's a good thing. Though that does not mean that extra caution should not, and will not be exercised!

ANYWAY, pictures, pictures, pictures! I took a number of them.

Loading the majority up at Bridgerland in Logan, UT.


The multi-hour fun at Jack's Tire and Oil in Logan, UT:

 

[Valence]

More pictures:

 

[Valence]

As you can see from the last picture of the above post, the spare tire fit with no modifications and zero problems. It only took a little more finagling to work into place - mostly due to the increased weight I'm sure.

The spare touches the driver's tool box, clears the pinion park brake, and leaves plenty of room between the tires of the front-most rear axle. However, I can not longer fit my fat head between the tires to reach the air-tank drain valves (I have to lay down and slide under the spare tire), so I'll need those pull cord valves. Though honestly, I was hoping the air dryer would take care of this issue (still need to address my air dyer issues).

 

[Valence]

Here you can see there is no clearance for tire chains on the inner duals. In fact, the end corner of the inner duals lug rubs against a bolt next to the trunnion cap (I think that's what it is called).

I have not yet researched if something like spacers is possible (and safe) to move out the tires a bit, because I don't want to dig up my awesome tires!

Is this caused by TOO much "walking" of the "dog bones" (torsion/torque bars)? Most of the ends only have very small cracking, however, the uppers are a bit larger in regards to cracking.



Comparison of clearances:
Stock 9.00R20 NDT on the left side, Goodyear G177 11.00R20 on the right.



After about a 65 mile drive:



And a final picture to show how larger tires make even 2.5 ton Rockwell axles looks tiny!

 

[59apache]

Looks good!! i like the look of the duals....and now it looks really grown-up! I can't wait to mount my 11-20 NDT's on my deuce...and i hope, due the rounder profile, i don't have your clearance issues.

 

[davo727]

Nice. Good to see you found some guys who dont mind working.

 

[marchplumber]

Those guys looked like they were used to that type of work. (I am not, that's for sure) Truck looks great! It is exactly what I would like to do to the Raven Deuce after selling my singled out M923a1.

 

[wilfreeman]

I run 65 in the front and 40 in the rears (g177s, bobbed). I did the Gringletaub mod on my front spring perches - made a big difference above 50mph.

 

[brianp454]

My buddy has G177's on his deuce also. The rear axles on these trucks really wiggle around as part of the 3 link design, not necessarily bad parts. He has a little rub on the cap screws as shown on post #4. He's ran it that way for some time with no visible wear on the tires (yet). I suggested he remove the four offending screws and replace them with button head cap screws, which should give a bit more clearance. If that doesn't work I designed a shim (3D model) that would move the wheels out by the thickness of the plate (1/4 inch should do). I don't think it would make any significant loss of strength. If you have a buddy with a water jet or laser CNC machine you could get them cut out.

 

[tommys2patrick]

Looks great. You really nailed this with the description of work and the photos. Most excellent. I like others will be doing this mod. I am collecting an extra set of rims to go with the tires. So I can put it back to stock 9's if I do parade duty.

 

[saddamsnightmare]

August 10th, 2015.


You would probably have made it with singles that size on the rear and reversing the hubs, but with duals, I suspect you have too much width on your tires to work correctly. I seem to remember that the G177's are like, Load Range "E", good for about 7300 Lbs. per tire.... You are really going to have a problem with "Float" on deep mud or snow with these, as you have almost too much surface on the road to get optimum traction, and the increased tire surface on the road equals decreased PSI on the road also. Often the tall, narrow tires these trucks were designed for did behave differently in mud or snow.

Other then that, they should serve you well, but remember, they also decrease the amount of torque applicable on the ground while they increase your top end speed. In deep mud or on steep off road climbs, that difference may come back to haunt your truck, be careful.

 

[General Mcgregor]

Subbed, I'll be doing this soon hopefully

 

[Valence]

Looks great. You really nailed this with the description of work and the photos. Most excellent. I like others will be doing this mod. I am collecting an extra set of rims to go with the tires. So I can put it back to stock 9's if I do parade duty.

Thanks! I'm usually overly verbose on my write-ups.

My buddy has G177's on his deuce also. The rear axles on these trucks really wiggle around as part of the 3 link design, not necessarily bad parts. He has a little rub on the cap screws as shown on post #4. He's ran it that way for some time with no visible wear on the tires (yet). I suggested he remove the four offending screws and replace them with button head cap screws, which should give a bit more clearance. If that doesn't work I designed a shim (3D model) that would move the wheels out by the thickness of the plate (1/4 inch should do). I don't think it would make any significant loss of strength. If you have a buddy with a water jet or laser CNC machine you could get them cut out.

Thanks brianp454, I believe that would be the simplest solution, unfortunately I do not have access to said CNC machine.

Most threads on Steel Soldiers seem to be clearance issues with 395's:
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?136366-Longer-wheel-studs
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?120666-M35A2-wheel-spacers

However this one is right on topic:
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?18589-rockwell-wheel-spacer

Possible solutions:

1. Cut up a stock deuce wheel, using it as a spacer
2. Make custom plate spacers like you suggested

However, I haven't exactly read a firm success story, nor seen pictures.

So on my own searching I came across this and it seems to be basically exactly as you suggested (#2 in the above list):
http://www.kryptonitekustoms.com/product_p/kk-rwrockspacer.htm

Anyone use this place, or done something similar? It seems to be an exact fit for my needs. Website says: "Steel wheel spacer for Rockwell axles, 6 on 8.75" pattern. Several thickness to fix different clearance issues. Sold individually, unpainted."

I will need to measure the available thread left on the rear lug nuts but I believe there is sufficient for a 1/4" plate spacer. I think 1/4" would help a lot but not completely. As seen in this picture, some marks are visible past the bolt head on the edge of trunnion cap itself (which, honestly, isn't a big concern for me).


Still, I think it would be best to also do as you suggested to your friend with the "button head cap screws". Do you have a picture of what you mean?

 

[red]

Good upgrade. To compensate for the power loss you can turn up the fuel some.

 

[Valence]

Good upgrade. To compensate for the power loss you can turn up the fuel some.

Yes! But install a pyro first. A vicious cycle of "upgrades"! But I think that's what we like/hate about these trucks.

 

[red]

Haha very true.

 

[Valence]

I measured the remaining threads on the rear lug nuts. It appears that there is just barely enough room for a 1/4" spacer plate to help alleviate some/most of the clearance issues.

Do you think I should use a 3/16" plate instead of a 1/4" thick plate?

 

[Valence]

So on my own searching I came across this and it seems to be basically exactly as you suggested (#2 in the above list):
http://www.kryptonitekustoms.com/product_p/kk-rwrockspacer.htm

Anyone use this place, or done something similar? It seems to be an exact fit for my needs. Website says: "Steel wheel spacer for Rockwell axles, 6 on 8.75" pattern. Several thickness to fix different clearance issues. Sold individually, unpainted."

Not much for feedback so I'm venturing out on a limb. I put calipers on the threads and most read about ~0.27" past the lug nut. So last week I ordered 1/4" spacer plates from Kryptonite Kustoms and they're scheduled to be delivered tomorrow (Tuesday, 08/25/2015). I spoke to someone there over the phone (via the phone number listed on their website), and they can make the plates in 1/8", 3/16", 1/4", 1/2" etc. You just put the thickness that you want in the comment field in your online order. Here's to hoping they got it right!

 

[rustystud]

Hope it turns out OK for you. The truck does look sharp with those tires !

 

[runk]

I've got the same setup on my deuce, and have the same rubbing, slightly worse on one side then the other. I did a little investigating with re-painting the bolt heads and am 95% sure rubbing only occurs during full lock turns, which will leave the rear tandems visibly misaligned (sight along the tire edges and the front-rear and rear-rear axles will be offset by a bit). I suspect I might also get a bit of rub at max articulation. Since these things only happen at low speed, I have lived with it for several years with no more effect then shiny bolt heads and a barely visible band on the tire (you can't feel it). Be interested to hear how the spacers work out.

I run about 65-70PSI in the fronts and 35-40 PSI in the rears, which made the handling much better. The G177s are much better then the NDTs in heavy rain, mud and sand in my experience, but I haven't gotten the chance to try them in snow.