Upgraded deuce's tires to Goodyear G177 11.00R20s (dualed)

[General Mcgregor]

Thanks man! Looks like they have 5/16 as well if 3/8 or 1/2 wouldn't leave enough threads on the studs.

Also to keep this thread on the subject of the caster angle I am currently sourcing a pair of spring perches so I can mill those down and keep my stock set in case I ever decide to go back.

 

[Valence]

Reporting back as promised...

The center axle takes the brunt of the sideways force when turning left or right and on my truck (that I've used a 1/4" thick spacer plate on both rear axles) the center axle still showed signs of tire wearing on the trunnion cap and bolt head.

Center Axle, Driver's Side:
As can be seen, the tire is still rubbing on the trunnion cap bolt head and maybe even some on the trunnion cap itself. The tire tread is starting to lose small chunks on the very corner edge.


Center Axle, Passenger's Side:
The tire is also still rubbing on the trunnion cap bolt head and the edge of the trunnion cap itself. The tire tread is starting to lose small chunks on the very corner edge. This wear appears to be slightly less than on the driver's side.


Rear-most axle, Driver's Side:
Kind of dark, but I don't see any wearing on the bolt head or tire edge.


Rear-most axle, Passenger's Side:
Surprisingly looks a bit rusty (maybe it's just dirt! I didn't rub it with my finger to check), but that also shows that there doesn't appear to be any wear on the bolt head or tire.



My conclusion:

• 1/4" thick spacer plate appears to be sufficient for the rear-most axle, in over-the-road driving.
• It appears that a 1/2" thick spacer plate would be needed to stop (or mostly stop) the rubbing of the center axle.
• The "button" head bolts were definitely a good thing to do on all sides, regardless of spacer plate thickness used.

If you want to keep prices down I don't see significant harm being done to the tire or trunnion cap with the use of 1/4" plate. Though if the paint disappears, rust will eventually form. Another cost saving option is that you could order thicker plates for the center axle and 1/4" plates for the rear-most axle.

If I had to do it over, I might go with 3/8" plate all around. Though, 1/2" plate may also still be safe but I don't recall how much thread was left.
Update: See three posts later of a measurement of the remaining threads with a 1/4" spacer plate on stock studs:
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...-G-177-tires&p=1840048&viewfull=1#post1840048


If you wanted to wait yet again, I can measure the threads as I need to disassemble my passenger center axle as I believe I have a blown wheel/brake cylinder.

 

[General Mcgregor]

Thanks for the excellent report! I can wait a couple more days, not in a huge hurry to pay for the mounting. I just loaded the tires in the back of the truck yesterday so I'm ready to go anytime.

 

[tobyS]

Reporting back as promised...

If you wanted to wait yet again, I can measure the threads as I need to disassemble my passenger center axle as I believe I have a blown wheel/brake cylinder.

Don't forget that the first nut does not have threads all the way through, they start back from the face. Stick it on to where the first thread is about to attach and then measure it's distance. I'm looking at a new one and it seems to start threads about 3/8" in.

 

[Valence]

Outer dual off, I started dismounting the inner dual (2 of the six lug nuts removed, the other 4 still on). I then stuck an inner lug nut just barely back on the threads. It was only ever, ever-so-slightly engaged on the first thread, just enough to hold it in place (bump it and it'd fall).

With my 1/4" spacer plate still in place, there was exactly 1/2" inch of thread. (as can be seen in the first picture, the inner lug nut technically seats just below the surface of the wheel)



So, elementary, if a 3/8" spacer plate was used, there would be 3/8" of remaining thread.
If a 1/2" spacer plate was used, there would only be 1/4" of thread remaining.

Maybe the 1/4" plate is at most one should do with the stock studs? Not my area of expertise.

 

[rustystud]

Outer dual off, I started dismounting the inner dual (2 of the six lug nuts removed, the other 4 still on). I then stuck an inner lug nut just barely back on the threads. It was only ever, ever-so-slightly engaged on the first thread, just enough to hold it in place (bump it and it'd fall).

With my 1/4" spacer plate still in place, there was exactly 1/2" inch of thread. (as can be seen in the first picture, the inner lug nut technically seats just below the surface of the wheel)

View attachment 611014 View attachment 611013

So, elementary, if a 3/8" spacer plate was used, there would be 3/8" of remaining thread.
If a 1/2" spacer plate was used, there would only be 1/4" of thread remaining.

Maybe the 1/4" plate is at most one should do with the stock studs? Not my area of expertise.

If I remember right the amount of threads needed for safe operation, is the same as the diameter of the stud. So if the stud is 1/2" then you need 1/2" depth of engagement on the threads.

 

[tobyS]

A thread on caster angle strayed too far and went into spacers for the G177 on a deuce because of rubbing on the trunion bolts and it is going to be moved here per moderator.

It was last noted that the budd inner bolt may not have enough threads in contact to allow for a 1/2" spacer to go behind.

Here is an extended nut that has threads further down.

https://www.lawsonproducts.com/lawson/Right-Hand-Inner-Cap-Nut-for-Dual-Aluminum-Wheels/62437.lp

Thus by cutting off the pilot, the threads would start at the wedge ring, gaining at least 3/8" of threads.

 

[tommys2patrick]

It might take a bit more research and measurement but, what if you replaced the studs with longer ones instead? I see several listed in the referenced Lawson site that might be candidates. assuming it was not too much additional work R & R ing the studs.

 

[tobyS]

It might take a bit more research and measurement but, what if you replaced the studs with longer ones instead? I see several listed in the referenced Lawson site that might be candidates. assuming it was not too much additional work R & R ing the studs.

Taking 4 hubs apart to replace the studs is a lot of work but would surely do the job.

 

[tommys2patrick]

Thats what I was thinking too. In my case I was going to demount the 8 rears anyway to convert to G177's. While I was in there I was going to go through the brakes / hubs as well. Probably not the case for everyone but I would imagine a fair number of people would go the extra distance if they had the wheels / drums off anyway. Replacing the screws, adding backer plates to the drums and still having (albeit slight) rubbing issues seems like it might be worth the trade-off in extra work. As long as it did not result in a spun stud when you were done.

 

[tobyS]

As long as it did not result in a spun stud when you were done.

I doubt it would unless it's already loose.

Don't forget that you are committed to that wheel and spacer and cannot readily change back due to the long bolt. Well, I guess you could use a cut off wheel and make them shorter for the standard inner nut.

For anyone else that is not wanting to go that far and happens to read this thread, at least an alternative inner nut (removing the pilot) would give more thread contact when using 1/2" spacers and standard studs.

 

[whatadeuce]

I just got this Deuce from the POLICE with 10R 22.5 tires on it, I hope I go faster too...

 

[Special T]

If you replaced the inner stud so that you could run the spacer then later change your mind you could just get your hands on some aluminium outers. They are longer to accomidate the thicker material and should cover the inner stud fine.

 

[tobyS]

If you replaced the inner stud so that you could run the spacer then later change your mind you could just get your hands on some aluminium outers. They are longer to accomidate the thicker material and should cover the inner stud fine.

If you're talking about the one I referenced, the pilot would have to be removed. Or is there a long one that is not the same, with the pilot?

 

[Special T]

There are 2 kinds of piolets steel and aluminum alum are longer. Just so I have the sequence right. Stud, piolet, lugnut in that order off the hub.
I have used alum piolets on my forlift to add make shift duelly tires in the front using an extra nut and plate to get my spacing right.

 

[tommys2patrick]

Thanks Special T. I was noticing the difference in pilots(cap nuts with pilots) and the reference for steel inners and aluminum outers. I suppose that is why the pilots are longer due to the thicker aluminum rims. I would imagine that is also the difference in longer studs shown. for steel versus aluminum inner rims. I also think the reason for the lack of threads in the pilot area on the cap screws is that it provides no real structural purpose but to help guide the rim when mounting and in a minor way to provide a place for road grit and rust on the threads to go so the tapered end of the cap screw does not bottom out too soon and make a poor mating surface on the tapered part of the rim and lug nut.

The point being that cutting the pilot off of the cap screw would likely mean that at least you would need to be more careful and thorough in your procedures to make sure you did not bugger up threads and had clean mating surfaces. In my experience with Murphy and his laws, roadside changing of tires always seems to happen in the worst conditions, ie: mud snow ice dust uneven road surfaces haste dark etc.

Doing this at home in the best of conditions is one thing but in the field/on the road I would want as many advantages as I can get.

On the other hand, The great thing about a forum is you get the opportunity to kick an idea around and hear lots of different opinions and experiences.

 

[General Mcgregor]

Got started on my mods yesterday.
I already got the spacer plates painted up and waiting in the cab.
Replaced the cap screws and pulled the right side spring perch for caster angle modification. Just a couple more days and I'll be ready to change them over!

 

[Valence]

Hey, that's good work already. I like how you lifted and secured the leaf springs.

 

[tommys2patrick]

Yes, good photo sequence too. Thanks! Machine shop for the caster plates or hand grind?

 

[General Mcgregor]

Bridgeport at my work. I'm building a fixture to set in the vise so the angles on both will be identical even though I'm doing them one at a time.