Vacuum to collect ALT. Fuels

[Tlauden]

Well I searched and came up with nothing so here is my question/idea.

Has anyone ever thought about or used vacuum to collect wvo/WMO or whatever it is you burn? I've been looking at pumps for collection purposes and I ran into a "super sucker" vacuum truck and that's where the idea came from, you tube has a bunch of vids with this method and it seems like the home built ones will empty a 55gal drum in 30-60 seconds if the setup is good. Is there a down side though to this method? I searched the ALT. Fuels section of SS and it doesn't look like anyone's attempted it? Just figured I'd ask because it seems like an effective,quick, and easy way to collect te fuels. Obviously you would need a tank strong enough to hold a vacuum but I'm thinking a big old propane tank would work.

Any input or comments on this idea?

Thanks
Tyler

 

[nk14zp]

Yes it will work fine. Thats how we collected wmo at one place I worked to run the furnace.

 

[General Mcgregor]

We use pneumatic anti-static pumps to feed chemicals at the carwash where I work.

 

[donttreadonmebmg]

I've thought about that, using vacuum to suck oil from an engine/tranny. or I could use a small pump and air operated motor to turn the pump. The pump would have a small hose so it could be sent down the dipstick tubes on a cars engine/tranny/power steering.

ha ha ha haaa

SHTF I could go from car to car sucking oil. 6 miles to the gallon and about 3 gallons of oil per car that's 18 miles of travel per car.

 

[Tlauden]

What do they use for the vacuum? Jim

I saw online people use vacuum pumps, that run of 12vdc or 120vac, harbor freight sells vacuum pumps although I'm not sure if it's the right type. A gentleman even went as far as using the vacuum line on his pickup to get vacuum in the tank and once it gets to a certain point ya stick your suction line in a barrel, open the valve and it'll suck te barrel dry.

It just seems to me to buy a good pump your going to invest some $ and you might have issues, as with the vacuum you will still invest $ but it seems as it would be a more forgiving system if you sucked up something you shouldnt. Like I said I am just brainstorming ways to make collection a little easier IMHO

 

[bigugh20]

Some of the oil change outfits use old propane cylinders that won't pass certification any longer (cheaper that way) and pull a vacume in it with the intake on a compressor.

 

[paulfarber]

Problems are:

You need a non-collapsible hose and they are generally thick and expensive.
You need a pump that is much more complicated than a 'pressure pump'
Viscosity will be a bigger factor.
Most vacuum pumps don't like 'stuff' going through them.
Pulling a 1 bar vacuum is more pressure on the container than 14psi of air (most drums are only rated for 10psi differential.

Unless by 'vacuum' you mean the typical diaphragm pumps that create a low pressure cavity (lower than atmospheric) fluid fills the void using the atmospheric pressure.

 

[jamesfrom180]

As vapor goes remember moving air creates static, static creates spark, sparks can make things go boom.

That said good grounding of drums and equipment is essential when working with even the less flammable liquids like used oil. You are never really sure of the mixture.

I use the Vac-Trucks you more than likely have seen. There are multiple versions out there from roots style blowers hooked to PTOs to simple diaphragm pumps. All have extensive explosion proofing. Matter of fact on one of my last jobs the operator informed me that he was told that when moving diesel now especially the low sulfur type to treat it just like gasoline. He informed me that a few terminals have had diesel vapor explosions. So don't take anything for granted please.

I would think if you can pull a vacuum on any vessel large enough in volume and have it so it will pull only fluid you could pre-charge your collecting containers. I use it when collecting air samples all the time. Its just alot harder to maintain that vacuum I carry four times the number of needed vessles when sampling because most are "shot" when I get to where I need to go.

 

['48Chevy6]

A Super Sucker is something that I'll build one day. Just because they are neat. Our current pump fills a 55 in four minutes and twenty seconds. A SS will shave how much time off of that?

A SS has to be greater than 55 gal capacity to make sense. Please educate yourself with placarding your vehicle and other requirements associated with hauling WMO in container sizes larger than 55 gallons. It is a different ballgame hauling bulk.

Tim

 

[Tlauden]

Thanks for the great info folks! I didn't know that static would be an issue in this system, guess ya learn something new each day and yes I was going to look through DOT rules about hauling bulk as to the tank would have to be able to hold at least 200 gal to make it worth it considering alot of shops around here have 250 gal tanks.. Also I was looking at just regular trash pump suction line, doesn't seem too expensive. I just figure even if I would spend $200 on a collection setup it would well pay for itself after the first fill up. Right now I'm just toyon with the idea and I apperaciate everyone's input! Thanks again!

 

[paulfarber]

For larger tanks I would used a submersible type pump... that way there is no long feed to prime.. the pump itself is in the fluid. We had them in the Navy.. they were just called 'submersible pumps' made of brass and weighed about 50lbs. But that was for dewatering a compartment.

For 55 gallon drums a regular rotary barrel pump and a small motor (geared) hooked to the service air supply should empty a drum in minutes.

 

['48Chevy6]

I do not understand how they are making SBC oil pumps to work in this application? Jim

We've converted several of them.

By far the sweetest one we have is based on a machined plate that a fellow in Ohio makes. We bolted a sbc pump to the plate, hooked it up to a 3/4 hp electric motor and fill drums at pick up time in under 4 1/2 minutes. We also use it for filtering by drawing our blended oil through five separate filters at about one gallon a minute.

Do a google search for "sbc wvo pump".

Tim

 

[paulfarber]

The pump part number is Melling M55HV and here is a SBC pump with a plate and pressure guage:

http://wasteveggieoilexplorations.shutterfly.com/48

THere is a junk yard in Hazelton and I"m sure that a used pump will down just as well as new... but cheaper.

Its a high volume pump that replaces OEM.. here's a list of cars that should have the pump or a similiar one:


categories > Automotive > Parts > Auto (45996)
1958 to 1994 CHEVY BUICK GMC ISUZU OIL PUMP HIGH VOLUME MELLING M55HV


1958 to 1994 CHEVY BUICK GMC ISUZU OIL PUMP HIGH VOLUME MELLING M55HV
Price: $34.99 add to cart
Seller: cruisersclassics View Store
Feedback: 100%, 62 sales Ask seller a question
Shipping: US-Mainland: $8.99 (more destinations)
Sales Tax: Illinois: 7.25%
Condition: brand new
Payment with:

New In Box - New Old Stock CLOSEOUT!

FITS the Following GM and Isuzu applications

Buick 94-99 3.1L Vin M, 90-93 Vin T, 00-05 3.1L Vin J (Century), 02-05 3.4L Vin E(Rendevous)

Chevy 90-95 3.1L Vin D (Lumina APV), 99-03 3.1L Vin J (Malibu), 94-99 3.1L Vin M, 90-94 3.1L Vin T, 1993 3.1L Vin W, 96-04 3.4 Vin E (Lumina Van, Venture, Monte Carlo and Impala), 93-95 3.4 Vin S and 04-05 3.5L Vin 8 (Malibu and Uplander). Chevy/GMC Trucks 90-93 with the 2.8L Vin R.

Isuzu Trooper 90-91 with 2.8L Vin R GM engine, 91-94 Pick-up and Rodeo with the 3.1L Vin Z GM engine.

Oldsmobile 90-95 3.1L Vin D (Silhouette Van), 99 3.1L Vin J (California Emissions Only), 93-99 3.1L Vin M, 90-93 3.1L Vin T, 96-04 3.4L Vin E (Silhouette, Alero).

Pontiac 90-95 3.1L Vin D (Transport), 00-03 3.1 Vin J (Grand Prix), 94-99 3.1L Vin M, 90-94 3.1L Vin T, 96-04 3.4L Vin E (Firebird,Grand Am,Grand Prix,Transport,Aztek and Montana. 93-95 3.4L Vin S and 2005 3.5L Vin 8 (G6 and Montana).

Manufacturer's Application List Chevrolet
200,229,262,265,267,283,305,307,327,348,350,400 and 409ci engines in the following applications; 77-87 Buick cars with the Chevy 305ci Vin's G,H & U, 77-79 Buick cars with the Chevy 350ci Vin L, 93 Buick with the Chevy 350ci Vin 7 and 94 Buick with the Chevy 350ci Vin P(LT1). 91-92 Cadillac cars with the Chevy 305 Vin E, 90-93 Cadillac cars with the Chevy 350ci Vin 7 with the 5/8" dia.inlet hole, 94 Cadillac cars with the Chevy 350ci Vin P with the 5/8" dia.inlet hole. 78-79 Chevy cars with the 200ci V-6 engine, 75-76 Chevy cars with the 262ci V-8 engine, 85-92 Chevy cars with the 4.3L (262) Vin Z V-6 engine, 94 Chevy cars with the 4.3 (262) Vin W V-6 engine with the 5/8" dia.inlet hole, 79-82 Chevy cars with the 267ci engine, 58-67 Chevy cars with the 283ci engine (except the 64-67 Chevy II), 76-93 Chevy cars with the 305ci All Vin's with the 5/8" dia.inlet hole, 68-73 Chevy cars with the 307ci engine, 62-69 Chevy cars with the 327ci engine (except the 64-67 Chevy II), 58-61 Chevy cars with the 348ci engine, 67-94 Chevy cars with the 350ci Chevy engine All Vins with the 5/8" dia.inlet hole, 70-76 Chevy cars with the 400ci engine and 61-65 Chevy cars with the 409ci engine (except 65 with dual 4-barrell carbs). 78-79 Chevy/GMC trucks with the 200ci engine, 80-84 Chevy/GMC trucks with the 229ci engine, 90-91 Chevy/GMC trucks with the 4.3L (262ci) Vin B engine, 85-86 Chevy/GMC trucks with the 4.3L (262ci) Vin N engine, 92-93 4.3L (262ci) Vin W engine with the 5/8" dia.inlet hole, 86-94 Chevy/GMC trucks with the 4.3L (262ci) Vin Z engine with the 5/8" dia.inlet hole, 79-82 Chevy/GMC trucks with the 267ci engine, 57-67 Chevy/GMC trucks with the 283ci engine, 76-94 Chevy/GMC trucks with the 305ci engine with the 5/8" dia.inlet hole, 68-73 Chevy/GMC trucks with the 307ci engine, 62-68 Chevy/GMC trucks with the 327ci engine, 58-65 Chevy/GMC trucks with the 348ci engine, 69-94 Chevy/GMC trucks with the 350ci (all Vins) engine with the 5/8" dia.inlet hole, 74-80 Chevy/GMC trucks with the 400ci engine and 62-65 Chevy/GMC trucks with the 409ci engine.

Note: adds an additional 20% volume over stock oil pump. It is recommended to use an aftermarket Steel oil pump drive shaft (IS55E) with the steel collar attached instead of the factory shaft and plastic collar.

 

[jollyroger]

You would actually be suprised how much vacuum some automotive fuel/vacuum hose can take. We use it to vacuum break the beads on tires while out in the mountains. Kinda hard to take the tire machine with us. And not everyone has bead locks. So we gotta be creative with breakin a bead without making it too much of a job. Just hook up the 3/8 inch fuel line and the the vacuum from the engine do the work.

I have not done it but I would assume one could transfer fluid the same way. I don't know how much volume you would be able to pass and how quickly but i'm sure it would work.

A SBC pump would definitely move fluid but I would be worried about priming the pump if you had a long distance from the end of the pick up tube to the pump. Their application is basically submersed so in their factory environs they are self priming........I might need to run some real world tests so I can add some anticdotal evidence.

 

['48Chevy6]

Our current sbc pump self primes like nobody's business. It's a gear pump so it will create a vacuum if it not totally shot.

It is however, meant for oil pan placement, and as such does not have a seal around the shaft. Expect some seepage there. If that is the biggest mess you have while trying to save the mothership as you recycle used oil, consider yourself lucky.

I have used take out pumps from a race car buddy before, but my current favorite is a Melling m55HV. About $31.00 at AutoZone.

Tim

 

[mktopside]

It's a great idea. Any wet/dry vac will work fine. I used to manage a quicklube (like jiffy lube) and the vacuum was out #1 tool for cleaning up waste oil spills in the basement.

As long as you figure out a way to get the oil back out of it, without have to manhandle a big tub of oil you'll be fine.

They suck up oil FAST too.

 

[Tlauden]

Thanks for all the info guys, below is a link to a video on you-tube where a gentleman used his vacuum in his truck to suck up oil. Side Note: I don't know the guy in the video but i really like his idea. and i thought about using a shop vac to create vacuum in a bigger tank but ill have to play with that idea once i get a tank

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PV95tkfTVc[/media]

 

[kastein]

it's probably bad that I recognized the pickup he's got the tank in by the shape of the back of the cab and the back end of the bedside... that's a Comanche! And the lucky SOB has the rare cargo / bed area light option *and* rear slider window! Looks like an '89 or a '90 based on the emissions hoses and wiring harness under the hood.

nifty setup he's got, never thought of using manifold vacuum to fill WVO tanks. I'll have to put together a tank setup for one of my Comanches when I get a chance.

 

[paulfarber]

Diesels don't have any vacuum... M35A2s sure don't. Thats why we have the air compressor to operate brakes and wipers.

 

[kastein]

yep, no butterfly throttle valve in a diesel, so no vacuum.