Wisconsin allegedly cancelling Military vehicle titles.

[Tx75Pinz]

Hope I'm not crying wolf, but over on some of the Pinzgauer boards there is a lot of chatter about Wisconsin having cancelled all titles to Pinzgauers and deeming them unfit for road use.

The last entry was from a fella that says this imperial edict has been extended to former military jeeps.

I have no idea if this will effect people here who mainly have American stuff or if the jeep thing is just the tip of the iceberg. I'd quote the stuff but no sure if that is legal here.

Good luck and hope your state doesn't follow suite.

 

[DDoyle]

Before someone decides that this needs to be screamed from the highest mountain top - which Tx75Pinz is NOT doing - please take the time to actually verify this with the state of Wisconsin. Not someone on another board, or someone's uncle's brother's cousin.

A month or so back a similar pot got stirred, and the problem in that case was not that Wisconsin wouldn't license an ex MV - but in fact they would not license ANY vehicle without a title (in fact, most states won't).

Last thing this hobby needs is a bunch of bone-headed hate mail to law makers over something that may not have even happened. Rational, fact-based communication gets much better results.

Regards,
David Doyle

 

[SasquatchSanta]

I am an old man and have known a great many troubles, but most of them never happened. - Mark Twain

 

[kcimb]

Begun, the pinz wars have.

 

[papercu]

title

that Wisconsin wouldn't license an ex MV - but in fact they would not license ANY vehicle without a title (in fact, most states won't).

Well... they may not give you one but according to their website all that is needed is "The vehicle title OR REGISTRATION CARD from your previous state of residence is acceptable proof. You will be required to give up this document when you apply. It will be replaced with a new title or registration card from Wisconsin."
I believe as long as you have a current tag and registration from your former state, any state you move to has to honor that. Wayne

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/drivers/vehicles/new/apply.htm

 

[acetomatoco]

RE: title

Oh good, only 49 states and a few territories to revisit. Folks have to start doing their own homework...instead of starting the flamethrowers ....

 

[NC_Pinz]

It appears that we do have confirmation that it's Wisconsin.

http://real4x4forums.com/PinzgauerBBS/viewtopic.php?t=3098&start=15

 

[Tx75Pinz]

The guy that worte the original statement I saw claims his Pinz was registered there for 5 years. So, apparently it is not like it had never been titled. Further on either in Real 4 X 4 or the yahoo group is where someone else is claiming that the same edict was being used for an old ex-military jeep. No comments as to where the jeep came from or if it was ever titled. My concern is that this could spread, not only to other states, but other classes of vehicles, if it is true.

 

[DavidB]

This sounds like fun, my M275A2 was former Wi. Army National guard they drove all over the state recruiting with it now it's not legal? Will wait to see, but sounds like some one needs to have a rational conversation with his/her state Representative. INVITE THEM TO RIDE AT A VETERANS DAY EVENT show what you do and why.Also if this is a home problem we can solve it at home, again rationally not with hate mail.
DavidB

 

[Tx75Pinz]

Apparently someone else got the letter from the state of Wisconsin and posted it on Real 4 X 4. Reading the posts there I don't get the feeling that there will be a lot of hate mail, but it sure looks like they will be getting support from around the country. This is some malo stuff, but it will be interesting to see what happens and how far the state will try to go.

 

[Goatwerks]

The jeep referred to is a thread on the G503 board, it was sold without a title as it is was not required in the southern state it was sold in
It appears Someone in Wis. DMV is making policy decisions without changes in the law
Read the letter posted on the Real4x4 forum, it is fulll of miss-information.
All Pinzgauers and Unimogs imported here are exempt from certain DOT regs due to year of manufacture, and and imported for "Legal road use" as allowed by the US government.
See Federal importation laws regarding "Grey market vehicles" which include anything not produced here that is more than 25 years old.
I suspect a personal agenda here by an overzelious DMV worker

 

[Tx75Pinz]

Jim, I expect your right and that's why I'm not running around in circles yelling OMG! But, if they get away with it the implications are enormous. Cheers, Andy

 

[ida34]

I know of other states including MI that allow you to make your own vehicle. A law enforcement officer must inspect it to make sure it has some minimum required equipment and then you can get it titled. A state issued vin is issued and affixed to the vehicle. You do not need a federal sticker at all. Most all military vehicles would pass this test if they have not been modified. They were designed to be driven on the road mostly and sometimes off road. Some bone head made an administrative decision but it would be interesting to read the law that he has said the ruling is based on. If the Wisconsin law says that a vehicle must be federally certified then people might be screwed. Cars coming into the US from other countries must have all sorts of stuff added to them to make them federally compliant. Mostly it involved tempered safety glass for the windshield and bumpers that can absorb a hit from so much a MPH with not damage. Emissions standards and many other nit picky stuff. I am pretty sure the PINZ would not meet this standard and I doubt they were modified to meet federal guidelines when they were imported. I think the compliance is only for new cars sold in the US not old stuff imported not for resale. It will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

 

[Goatwerks]

The Pinz meets all Fed DOT regs for Gray market importation, that is why you CAN drive it here. It was also sold to the general public in Europe and the US in civilian models that had a slightly spiffier interior. I even have a PDF of the US sales brochure from 1974

 

[rmgill]

Re: RE: Wisconsin allegedly cancelling Military vehicle titl

A month or so back a similar pot got stirred, and the problem in that case was not that Wisconsin wouldn't license an ex MV - but in fact they would not license ANY vehicle without a title (in fact, most states won't).

Here's the rub. Georgia doesn't issue titles for vehicles older that 20 years.

 

[Goatwerks]

Read the letter, here is a link directly to it http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f139/scooter007bob/SCAN0001.jpg
I read it as ANY MILITARY VEHICLE
My [/url]

 

[BigJay]

RE: Re: RE: Wisconsin allegedly cancelling Military vehicle

It's not the same thing but it is similar.... I moved from New Jersey to Arkansas recently. I own a 16 foot car trailer that weighs around 2000lbs. New Jersey DOES NOT issue titles on trailers under 2500lbs. When I moved here I went to the tag office with my bill of sale, NJ registration, and other associated documents. The girl there took all my stuff, gave me a new title and plate for the trailer.

Then 2 months later I get a letter from Little Rock saying they've revoked my title because I did not provide them with my New Jersey Title. Took a little over an hour on the phone(most of the time holding) to get it resolved. In the end all it took was getting someone on the phone that knew NJ didn't issue titles(even though I TOLD everyone else that) and he was like "Oh yeah, no problem, your title will be mailed in 7-10 days."

The people in these offices are programed not to think and to respond according to their "proceedures" which may or may not reflect the actual law. Once they have headed down a certain path it can be rather difficult to get them back on the correct one. I must have told 4 people that NJ doesn't issue titles, none of them wanted to hear it. Last guy must have either gone through this before, or know someone up there, I didn't even finish getting my sentance out before he told me my title was on it's way.

-Jay

 

[FormerNewMVGuy]

RE: Re: RE: Wisconsin allegedly cancelling Military vehicle

I have a house in NJ. and maine, In maine, any vehicle older than 1990 does not require a title to register,I took a izusu pickup 1990 from Nj to maine, I busted my arss to get the NJ title before i took it to maine , only to be told i didnt need it when i got there! Almost thought of registering the deuce there, but got the NJ title instead

 

[undysworld]

Hi, Paul Underwood here. I am the guy who first posted the notice on the real4x4 board, and it is my Pinzgauer 712M which first personally involved me. I received a letter exactly like the one shown here (above) last Friday. I have owned the truck 4 or 5 years. I bought it from ColdWarRemarketing (sp?) in Littleton, CO from the owner, Patrick Robb. I immediately drove it to Wisconsin and registered it. They had an hour delay before their "research dept." could find the correct "Make" to enter it into the computer with, but essentially no sweat. I've driven the truck to the Rockys again and back, and I probably average 1500 mi./yr. All background stuff.
Here's perhaps the biggest grind: They have issued a new title, which reads in the "make" area "STEYR PUCH PINZGAUER NON_ROADWORTHY VEHICLE" and below that "for off road use only". Now, even if I just want to sell my truck out-of-state, could anyone take that title and get the truck licensed for road use anywhere else? Is my truck worthless? And if it is, who'll pay for that?
As to their claims, the Pinz is not made in Switzerland. It was in fact built in Austria for military AND civilian sale. In fact, there is a civilian 710K in the US, certified by the DOT, and fully federalized, which was imported as a prototype civilian unit for possible sale in 1983. I will hopefully have photo proof of this in the near future.
Another Pinz owner (who asks at this writing to remain unnamed) who contacted the DMV was told that "all ex-military vehicles" were targeted for being removed. This is a fellow who I consider to be reputable and knowledgeable. I am trying to help by getting the information posted on the net. If things end up in court, I intend to provide what assistance I can. Hopefully, reason prevails. I'm also considering other options for operating my truck legally, perhaps as a 'tractor'. We'll see.....
I'm making this post not so much to ask for help, though if people can offer any assistance it won't be refused, but to let the owners of other, non-Pinzgauers know what's apparently coming. I've now heard from 3 other Wisconsin Pinzgauer owners who've received the death letter....
This is, unfortunately, just beginning, IMHO.
Thanks for reading. Paul

 

[gimpyrobb]

Wow, I know I would be pizzed! Good luck on you adventure.