Work on the War Pig continues

[mudguppy]

russ - forgot to ask: you planning on doing a 12volt converstion at the time of the swap. i'm thinking that is the opportune time...

 

[russ81]

The Painless system is just under $1,000.

I have heard that if I used the stock wiring harness I would have to use the stock gauge cluster, so, like you said, the computer could communicate properly. So, with that in mind, I have given serious consideration to fabricating a dash to accept the stock gauge cluster. I think it would look pretty cool, and give me something that was both modern and functional. My buddies are trying to talk me into using the stock steering column, but I think that would look to out of place.

I'm looking into the HP being around 500. I've seen Southbend clutches on e-Bay that are rated for that. I don't think I want to go any higher then that for several reasons. First you start blowing parts up, and second, you start loosing reliability. This truck will be my "Mad Max" vehicle, so I don't want to have to work on it all the time, or have trouble finding parts.

Do any of you guys know where I can get my ECU "flashed" for use with my transmission?

 

[russ81]

russ - forgot to ask: you planning on doing a 12volt converstion at the time of the swap. i'm thinking that is the opportune time...

YEP !!!

12 volt all the way. I have already striped all the wiring since this truck is a `59 it needed replacing any way. I'll add new lights, turn signals, and headlights. Everything for the engine is already 12volt, and if I stick with the stock guage cluster it will be an easy switch. Personally I have no use for a 24 volt system. I will retain the duel battery set up for the starter, but again, it is just a 12v system doubling the amperage.

There will be very little left stock on this truck. I'm trying to moderize everything. I retained the windshield wiper assembly from my parts truck to swap in on the Pig. With a little fabrication I will be able to make it all work. I even kept all the parts for the heating/AC system, but that upgrade is down the road.

 

[mudguppy]

The Painless system is just under $1,000.

I have heard that if I used the stock wiring harness I would have to use the stock gauge cluster, so, like you said, the computer could communicate properly. ...

i am still not understanding this - people are swapping common rail cummins into things everyday and not using the dodge cluster.

spend some time on the diesel garage, specifically the conversion forums and the 3rd gen forums - these guys can answer any questions about swaps, because there are already tons that have been swapped. there's also companies and shops that do nothing but sell cummins swap parts and do cummins conversions.

also, post in the vendors forum that you are looking for a clutch and the site sponsors give great deals to members - i know this. i'm not trying to pimp out the other site or anything, but there's a ton of cummins-specific knowledge there.

a total re-wire?????? oh, man.... you have much more patience and discipline than i...

 

[Nomercy]

i am still not understanding this - people are swapping common rail cummins into things everyday and not using the dodge cluster

perhaps they are reprogramming the ECU so it doesnt have to talk to the gauges? or making their own harness? you cam do anything with knowledge and power!

 

[mudguppy]

ok, but ask yourself - why would an ecu need to talk to a guage? that's the part that doesn't make sense... guages do not output.

 

[Nomercy]

Do any of you guys know where I can get my ECU "flashed" for use with my transmission?

just has to be flashed for a manual trans its not NV4500 specific. a dealer can do it for you but they may also laugh at you and tell you to get bent or charge you an arm and a leg then ask for your first born and when its all said and done it will still be wrong. im sure there are other places that can do it, probably painless. go to the website mudguppy suggested and create an account and start asking questions they will know more about it then we do

 

[Nomercy]

ok, but ask yourself - why would an ecu need to talk to a guage? that's the part that doesn't make sense... guages do not output.

gauge doesnt make any out put but the ECU wants to make sure the Check Engine Light works, the gauges are all electronic and controlled by the ECU. and if the gauges dont work the ECU gets fussy. there are multiple other reasons that i dont know as well. its just the way it works....sorry i dont know how to explain it any better.

its kinda like needing an auto with an auto tranny programed ECU if the tranny isnt there then the ECU would go into limp mode and probably shut off or not make any power at all. it just has to be a complete system

dont get me wrong here im not arguing, because i dont get it either...most of this shiz is way over my head.

 

[russ81]

I understand everything your saying. I have heard the same thing from people I know that know electronically controled engines. Something about the Check engine light, and making a complete loop in the system. I'm a gear head not an electrician, but I do understand what they are talking about. I just don't know how to get their YET, but I'm working on that one.

I will check out that web site, and see what I can come up with.

 

[russ81]

here are some pictures one of my employees drew up for me. I'm going to use them on the door and the tailgate.

 

[Nomercy]

nice

 

[russ81]

Started working on the front bumper. It is 6" sch. 40. So far I have just tack welded the main frame together. This weekend I will start working on the "bull bar," the tow hooks, and the mounting flanges.

 

[Chinookpilot77]

Russ,

If you are interested in Turbo options like I saw you talking to guppy several posts ago, look into a twin turbo set up using your stock 35 with an HT3B on the bottom as a primary. No lag, and will support up to 700hp pretty easy on the air side...you'll just have to match the fuel. The turbo will cost 600bucks (ish) and you'll have to do a bit of fab work, but you should be fine with all of that. Kits are available for 1000 bucks not including the turbo.

cumminsforums.com will be your friend for that. mudguppy and I have the same plan.

 

[russ81]

Thanks for the info.!!

I will look into it!

 

[russ81]

Here are some more pictures of the front bumper progression. I should have it fab'd up in a few more days.

 

[Crash_AF]

To answer the question about why the gauges are required unless you get a stand-alone or reflashed computer for the Dodge common rail Cummins, the system is all computer controlled on the CANbus (Controller Area Network) system, the gauge cluster is actually a computer and the ECU is looking for it to 'talk' back to the network. If it doesn't the ECU goes into a default mode since it assumes you can't read the gauges and/or won't start. Chrysler has been doing that in trucks since at least 98.

Looks like a fun project, can't wait to see it complete.

Later,
Joe

 

[russ81]

I am seriously looking at fabricating a "dash" and mounting the gauge cluster in it. That way I can use everything as designed, and have the look and function of newer and more modern gauges.

Thanks for input Joe. I was sort of thinking that was the way things worked, but I wasn't for sure.

 

[mudguppy]

Russ,

If you are interested in Turbo options like I saw you talking to guppy several posts ago, look into a twin turbo set up using your stock 35 with an HT3B on the bottom as a primary. No lag, and will support up to 700hp pretty easy on the air side...you'll just have to match the fuel. The turbo will cost 600bucks (ish) and you'll have to do a bit of fab work, but you should be fine with all of that. Kits are available for 1000 bucks not including the turbo.

cumminsforums.com will be your friend for that. mudguppy and I have the same plan.

got some links for that? i'd be interested in checking it out. also, this sounds like something for second gen cummins, not 3rd. russ' has an '03 as a donor and the stock turbo (IIRC) is an HE351, or similar. i don't believe that they used hx35's after 2nd gens.

also, from what i've read, russ is starting at a great spot w/ a commonrail as a platform. commonrails are easily tuned with programers and are much more forgiving with regard to turbo lag and will be easier to get his goal possibly on a single turbo. well, reaching the goal of 500 is easy for a single, but having good driveability is what i'm refering to.

i am, however, also considering an ht3b or model of s300 to add to the stock turbo on mine for a starter twin set (my goal is also around 500). when i was looking into this, i was told you could get into 550hp, maybe maxing close to 6 but w/ high heat. 700 is big - i would doubt that any stock charger can help support that. but i could most certainly be wrong.

 

[russ81]

Got the front bumper all tacked together Sunday evening. Hard to get anything done when your working 7 days a week.

 

[Sumoman]

Been reading up, WAR-PIG is a great name for the rebuild. NICE! Wish I had the time and money.. or maybe just the money to pay someone else to do it