Problem this morning, need help.

[Iamnewatthis]

Warthog and others helped me out last week when I was all but giving up fixing my truck. The positive post on my passenger alt came in contact with the mounting bracket and toasted some fusible links. The one I missed was one on a big red wire coming from the battery that went under a wiring post above the glow plug relay. I could not see it completely as it was flush with the bottom of it. When I examined it, it crumbled in my hand. It otherwise looked fine, which is probably why I missed it.

Before I got my answer I replaced my glow plug relay, ignition switch, starter relay and many fusible links.

Yes i followed your thread to help me. Glad you got it figured out. I checked that one too.
It looks good but i think i'll replace it anyway.
Im gonna check the connections on the starter too.
Don't know what else to do.

 

[donalloy1]

will set this to memory.. so far so good on my end...

 

[Iamnewatthis]

double post

 

[Iamnewatthis]

Warthog or anyone else have anymore insights?

I have looked at both the FAQ's, read i don't know how many diagrams till i can't see straight.
Looked at the trouble shooting sections of the manuals.
Replaced every fusible link i could find.
Replaced the Starter relay, glow plug relay.
and charged batts.
Truck still wont start.
The gen lights, wait light comes on and goes off, but nothing happens when i turn key.
The volt meter is reading zip even though the batts. are good.
Anymore help would be much appretiated.
thanks.

 

[wallew]

30 amp fuse lower right hand side of the fuse panel. PULL IT OUT. Brighten up the contacts before you put a NEW 30 AMP FUSE in place.

Might solve your problems.

OH, you double posted.

 

[duchiem1009]

I do not know if this will help you. But two weeks ago I pulled into the filling station, shut the M1009 down. Filled her up, jump in her hit the key nothing, traced wires, checked Batteries. Had power down to the starter solniod, had voltage. drove me crazy. Long story short I melted the high tension post inside of the the starter. So I had power everywhere except to the postive brushes inside the starter. I pulled the end cap off the the starter and it was right there. Stripped a wire down to the copper and made a mechinical conction and got home. If you have power everywhere take a look. Not saying thats what it is But maybe. Hope it helps

 

[Iamnewatthis]

double post again

 

[Iamnewatthis]

Thanks you guys,
I forgot to mention i replaced all the fuses. I did not clean them up though. I need to.
About to jump under it and put a meter on the starter to if i have power there.
I'll do these and get back to you, thanks.

ETA; cleaned fuse contacts,
put meter on starter relay wires, reading 12.75 volts
batt. cable going to trianglular post with cable to GPR cable reads 12.75 volts also,
red cable on gpr also reading 12.75 volts
all hot positive posts behind batts. have power, batts. are reading 12.75 volts on front one and 24.95 on rear batt.
going back with kid to hold flash light while i try to reach starter with meter.

ETA-2; volt meter on dash still reads zero and lights don't come on.

 

[rickf]

It sounds to me like you have the cables on the batteries wrong or hooked to the bus bars wrong if you are getting 12 volts at the starter. The meter will show 0 if you are putting 12 volts to it. Make sure your batteries are in series and not parallel. Then make sure you are connected to the buss bars correctly.

Rick

 

[Iamnewatthis]

It sounds to me like you have the cables on the batteries wrong or hooked to the bus bars wrong if you are getting 12 volts at the starter. The meter will show 0 if you are putting 12 volts to it. Make sure your batteries are in series and not parallel. Then make sure you are connected to the buss bars correctly.

Rick

Rick, it's certainly possible i put the batt. cables on wrong.
Can anyone post a pic or tell me whats right?
I have not taken anything off buss terminals.
just one at a time to replace fusible link, then right back on only open terminal.

Also, I put the meter on the buss terminal that the red cable for the starter goes to, it's hot, as well as when i touch the connecter for it and not the buss post itself, also hot, but when i got under the truck and put the meter on the other end of the cable to the starter, nothing. How can this be? One end of the cable is hot, the other where it attaches to the starter is not?
eta; i am using the batt. load test mode on the meter, everything either comes up 12.75 or 25.25 volts.

 

[3dubs]

First grab some trash and throw it as hard as you can in a safe direction. Then knock the trash can over and yell at the kids to pick up all the trash.

When you put the cables on the batteries if you see a spark stop and disconnect everything. If not the smoke makes it hard to see and breath. All that popping stuff is bad. First take the alts to a parts store and have them checked. If they are bad take your alternators to an alternator re-builder. Ask them what is going on inside and if that could be the source of the problem or just damage from the problem. Most likely there is other damage. Start looking at all the wires for obvious damage like melted wires. Then get a multimeter and start going through everything starting with the battery cables. Take your time because there could be little problems too. Good luck.

 

[duchiem1009]

If the hot lead to the starter is hot at the buzz bar but has no voltage at the starter, then you found your problem. Your hot lead is bad. You probably have a break in the wire. Over time, vibration and age will cause that problem. If your mulitie meter has contonuity you can test it. Granted it will not show load but will show if your curcuit is getting complete. your negative and postive leads can only flow the same electrons as the weakest one.

example. postive flows 6 volts, negative flows 24 volts. Supply of electrons for the curcuit will be 6 volts.

 

[rickf]

I don't exactly know what the load test setting is on your meter. You need a normal VOM and you need to check everything using the engine block as the ground. You should have 24 volts at the buss bar side of the starter cable. You just said it was hot but gave no voltage. Then you said you are showing 12.* and 24.* in another sentence. You are confusing me. If every thing is hooked up right you will show 12 volts on one buss bar and 24 volts on the other using the engine as the ground for your meter. As was said, you need to take all the wires off of the batteries and get a diagram and put them on right. IF you get a spark when installing them right then you have a problem. Could be a shorted alternator or it could be a burnt wire somewhere.

Rick

 

[Warthog]

The hot wire to the battery should be hot at all times. If you don't show voltage then the cable is bad or very corroded. I know it is a pain, but remove it and clean/check it.

These trucks are 25+ years only. NEVER assume that any wire or connection is factory fresh. The only way to know for sure that the connectors are working as designed is to remove/clean/replace.

Here is athe stock wiring diagram for the batteries and starter

 

[Iamnewatthis]

I dont think its the batteries.
I took them out to charge them again and put in 2 car batteries and it still wont start.
I just took the starter out and am going up to have the starter and batts. tested.
Will let you know how the test goes.

ETA; I put a meter on the starter relay too. black to ground and red to the red, its hot, then i put the red
on the purple with white stripe and had someone turn the key, i can hear the relay work and it goes hot on the purple with white stripe
when the key is turned.

 

[pvtjorge]

Leave it on automatic and it will go up as it senses the battery can handle it.
The pop may also have been the glow plug controller under the dash. As voltage goes down amperage goes up and you may have popped a resister.

Rick

Ohms Law says different

E = voltage
R = resistance in ohms
I= current in amperes

Solve for current (I)

I = E/R

1st example:

E = 24 volts divided by R = 2 ohms
I = 12 amps

2nd example:

Voltage goes down and resistance stays the same.

E= 21 volts divided by R =2 ohms
I= 10.5 amps (current goes down not up)

 

[rickf]

You got me there but I know when heat is brought into the equation it changes the resistance. I am too tired right now to remember the equations for heat related resistance changes.


Rick

 

[Iamnewatthis]

Had the batts. and the starter checked at o'reilly's , all good. Batts checked out on amps too.
So I spent the last couple hours trying to wrestle that beast back in,(starter) the support bracket is
a bitch to say the least.
I have 2 fusible links that looked good but will replace them anyway as i dont know what else to do.

Oh ya, the batts were hooked up right before. GPR and starter relays have been replaced. Just no power to
the starter it seems. Tomorrow will trace smaller wire from starter and check it out.

This is a bummer as this truck was my daily driver. Was so happy with it gave my ford to the kid. lol.

 

[rickf]

You has said that you had power at one end of the main starter wire but not at the other, have you replaced that wire yet? If not it seems like you are wasting a lot of time and money.

Rick

 

[Iamnewatthis]

You has said that you had power at one end of the main starter wire but not at the other, have you replaced that wire yet? If not it seems like you are wasting a lot of time and money.

Rick

Okay was swamped with family stuff yesterday so didn't get to it till today.

Starter wire is hot at both ends. 24 volts. Guess i didn't have the meter grounded
well the first time.

So now what?

Also, the black wire on the starter solenoid, where does it go? More importantly
how do i find it? The diagram has it going to something that i can't tell what it is.

Volt meter in dash still doesn't move, although batts are good.

Lights don't work. Though all the normal dash lights are still coming on.