5 ton lockout hubs

[JingoJohn]

I would take two sets AFTER they are PROVEN. Price is not everything. There is NOTHING worse than a critical component failure at a critical time.

 

[162tcat]

The problem with a premium price is not many sets will be made and if parts are needed they will be very expensive, unavailable or impossible to find. If the price is decent and many are sold, they will continue making them, lots will be available and parts be plentiful. Would you still want to pay $1,500 for them knowing that if one is damaged you're on your own due to the limited production and lack of interest at that price?

 

[patracy]

Yup.

 

[patracy]

I do have an idea. Take a pair of standard drive flanges and have the centers machined completely out. Buy a pair of these:
http://www.grainger.com/product/HUB-CITY-Precision-Splined-Hub-15V670

Then make a cap out of them with the hub. Drill the stock drive flange to have a perimeter of holes. Then on the cap side, use some hardened steel pins. Then simply make a sliding latching system to hold everything in place. The downside would be you'd need two sets of inserts. One with the splines in it, the other without as a dust cap. Incorporate a seal from an o-ring/channel in the hub/dust cover. The majority of the cost would be those splined hubs. But I'm sure they're available elsewhere for less. The rest would be machine work. Save a damaged oring or broke latching setup, I don't see them being very problematic. Course, they won't be "pretty".

 

[73m819]

There could be a problem with using 5t DEsplined caps, on the deuce spindle there is TWO bushings in the spindle to support the outer axle so even without the splines in the cap, the axle pretty much stays were it is, on the 5t spindle there is only ONE bushing which is in the back right at the bolt flange, there is NO bushing at the front like the deuce, on the 5t, the CAP SUPPORTS the front of the axle shaft, If you DESPLINE a 5t hub, there will be nothing to support the front of the axle, that is a lot of weight moving without support, will beat out the rear bushing and making MORE clearance to have things to beat on.
About the only way to get AROUND this situation is DESPLINE the caps then PRESS in A BUSHING to replace the splines to support the axle end and a grease fitting to keep it lubed.

 

[JingoJohn]

The problem with a premium price is not many sets will be made and if parts are needed they will be very expensive, unavailable or impossible to find. If the price is decent and many are sold, they will continue making them, lots will be available and parts be plentiful. Would you still want to pay $1,500 for them knowing that if one is damaged you're on your own due to the limited production and lack of interest at that price?

I did NOT say I wanted a "premium" price. I said PRICE (alone) is not everything. There is nothing more expensive than CRAPPY parts. Get stuck in the WAY-outback and see how much a tow costs for a 23,000 Lb vehicle.(IF you can get a tow.)

To be more clear; I am in for two sets IF they are high quality, DURABLE, PROVEN and selling for a rational price.

Do I need to explain 'rational price'? DURABLE, PROVEN parts are worth more than CRAPPY parts...at any price!

 

[patracy]

I'm just interested in one for my SEMTT project since it would cut down on drag on the front end. When it comes to breakage/recovery. I have a fleet of vehicles that could handle it. I understand though that not everyone has that option. And I certainly wouldn't want to buy something that would break easily after paying $1500 for.

 

[jatonka]

If I could find a foundry to cast the shells, and the money to do the rest of the machining, and a spring company to build the springs needed, I could build the hubs, I have been working on this for almost 1 year, the CAD drawings are done, several outfits have seen them and declined the work, too small, too big, not enough volume, etc. I can safely tell you all, they will not come close to the cost of M35 lockout hubs, not made in America. And I will not do it any other way.
I have not given up, providence has provided great things for me in the past, it may happenn again. I am sorry for not having a product ready to go, I will continue to attempt to build these hubs, John Tennis

 

[patracy]

If getting a casting is too much trouble. Why not just have flanges laser cut for the mounting surface and the outer surface where the dial would go. Then use a section of tubing to join them. It'd be another mfg step and not as fast as a casting. But laser cutting might end up being a wash with this process since it could feasibly eliminate heavy machinery work needed cleaning up a casting.

 

[JingoJohn]

JT, Try these guys in longmont, Colorado. They have done some very limited production for me.

http://www.westernfoundries.com/Products.html

If you need an alum foundry let me know. I also have a pal who is considered the "Guru of casting" and does work for some weirdo organization in Alamogordo, NM


Would you consider CNC 3 or 4 axis milling for the parts? For limited production it works out pretty well. Swiss screw machines can make some very complex parts. I also have a pal that runs a Swiss screw machine operation. His max OD is 1.75 in.

 

[JingoJohn]

JT, how'bout 3-d printing some demo parts to sign up guys here on SS? They could see what their ESCROWED $$$ would be purchasing. Sell "Delivery positions"....I will take two.

 

[JingoJohn]

YIKES! HTH did I go from 'Private' to 'Corporal' in one afternoon?????

 

[Welder Sam]

JT, how'bout 3-d printing some demo parts to sign up guys here on SS? They could see what their ESCROWED $$$ would be purchasing. Sell "Delivery positions"....I will take two.

Forward thinker.

 

[patracy]

JT, Try these guys in longmont, Colorado. They have done some very limited production for me.

http://www.westernfoundries.com/Products.html

If you need an alum foundry let me know. I also have a pal who is considered the "Guru of casting" and does work for some weirdo organization in Alamogordo, NM


Would you consider CNC 3 or 4 axis milling for the parts? For limited production it works out pretty well. Swiss screw machines can make some very complex parts. I also have a pal that runs a Swiss screw machine operation. His max OD is 1.75 in.

The outer housing of the hubs wouldn't at all hold up if they were made from cast aluminum.

 

[jesusgatos]

We've got several 5-tons and would love to be able to put some kind of locking hubs on them. Keep at it.

 

[JingoJohn]

The outer housing of the hubs wouldn't at all hold up if they were made from cast aluminum.

NOBODY said anything about the outer hub being cast al. If I recall correctly, the turn/switch gizmo on my AVM hubs for my '72 Scout was cast al. The reference was IF (BIG IF) the guy needs a good al foundry, I know a top notch foundryman.

BTW and FYI Zinc-Alum. (ZA) is extremely strong and most people would be surprised at how much highly stressed stuff is made with it.


I don't know much about 6x6's (yet) but I do know how to make stuff...just attempting to help the guy and indrectly, ALL of us.
Jingo

 

[jesusgatos]

Just noticed that OEM's locking hubs for 2.5-ton Rockwell axles are manufactured under license of patent 5,394,967. So I looked it up -> http://www.google.com/patents/US5394967. How do your locking hubs work?

 

[patracy]

NOBODY said anything about the outer hub being cast al. If I recall correctly, the turn/switch gizmo on my AVM hubs for my '72 Scout was cast al. The reference was IF (BIG IF) the guy needs a good al foundry, I know a top notch foundryman.

BTW and FYI Zinc-Alum. (ZA) is extremely strong and most people would be surprised at how much highly stressed stuff is made with it.


I don't know much about 6x6's (yet) but I do know how to make stuff...just attempting to help the guy and indrectly, ALL of us.
Jingo

You had mentioned about an aluminum casting company you knew of. I assumed you meant casting the outer section of cast. The dial could be cast from alum. Since it only has to slide the coupler down and doesn't really bear the load. But the outer housing of the warn style 5 ton hubs are cast iron. I know some of the smaller 4x4's I've had (Toyotas, Suzukis, exc.) used cast aluminum/alloy outer housings. But we're talking a very lightweight vehicle. I suppose given the right design/thickness of casting it could live. But I would only think in a M939 series I would try it. Since there's more "play" in the engagement of the front end of a older 5 ton sprag setup. That's purely my thoughts though, have no way of proving or disproving it.

 

[JingoJohn]

patracy,
I am a fan of ZA castings but this is not a good place for them.

If I were doing this (glad I am not) I would probably start with D-2 bar stock. CNC in 3 or 4 axis. Then Austemper.
http://www.appliedprocess.com/process

I think the guy should have some "rapid protos" made from soft al or plastic, even starch based proto 3-D printing. The mob here is a hands on bunch that wants to see and touch before they buy. With pics of the fast protos he could start to sign up "Delivery Positions" on an "IF produced" basis. Again, I would take 2 delivery positions.

 

[patracy]

patracy,
I am a fan of ZA castings but this is not a good place for them.

If I were doing this (glad I am not) I would probably start with D-2 bar stock. CNC in 3 or 4 axis. Then Austemper.
http://www.appliedprocess.com/process

I think the guy should have some "rapid protos" made from soft al or plastic, even starch based proto 3-D printing. The mob here is a hands on bunch that wants to see and touch before they buy. With pics of the fast protos he could start to sign up "Delivery Positions" on an "IF produced" basis. Again, I would take 2 delivery positions.

Rapid prototypes are neat. But if I fork over $1500, I'd like something a little more substantial than a paperweight. I'm not questioning anyone's character here. Just making an observation that I believe would be held by the entire group.

I'd be ready to pay up for a set of hubs if someone was ready like jatonka with a working example was presented. Even if it had to be a one off machined hub. Just a working proof of theory. I suppose a 3D printed model mocked up on a axle turned by hand would suffice for me as well given the credibility of the maker.

Again, I'm not trying to discredit/question anyone. Just giving my insight as a consumer.