AVM vs Ouverson: take a closer look!

[Trango]

By the way, 5T hubs would be very interesting.... it would bring the use of these axles into the mainstream.... or perhaps closer.

 

[Jed]

I guess if you can't decide between Ouverson or AVM, find a set of Warn hubs!

 

[Big Mike's Motor Pool]

In my opinion, what we have in this thread is a subtle sales effort for Ouverson hubs by disparaging the AVM hubs. From my first post, I have pointed out that John Tennis must be selling a bunch of the AVM hubs to warrant this kind of effort. I stand by that.

not saying that we in the MV hobby dont matter, but randy doesnt need any advertisment or have to try and deploy some seedy sales pitch by attacking another product. lockout hubs and 2.5 ton parts are not the only things machined in his shop. he could prolly stop making any 2.5 ton stuff and still make a nice living by continuing to deal with people like dennis anderson and the rest of his monster truck racing people

 

[Recovry4x4]

Jed, I don't think those have been made since the 80s. I had a set and wished I'd never got rid of them. What is the status of those? FWIW, warn made em for 5 tons too.

 

[OPCOM]

Or Just find some Selectros..

I find this thread very educational about how different hubs are made, and I find the 'agrument' about brand-scheming (for lack of a better term) to be entertaining.

FWIW I doubt I could break any of the hubs shown so far, even with the 3 tons in the bed. I bet I would break a front axle first.

 

[Jed]

Jed, I don't think those have been made since the 80s. I had a set and wished I'd never got rid of them. What is the status of those? FWIW, warn made em for 5 tons too.

I picked them up at Boyce Equipment last month. Mark Boyce said he hadn't seen a set of Warn hubs for a long time until he got these in. I had to work 'em over a bit, but they are like new now, for a lot less money. I'll be putting them on my truck next week.

 

[SasquatchSanta]

I seem to remember D-Man (OD Iron) making what I thought was an excellent post several months ago featuring a clutch assembly that he is offering. As in Gerhard's post, D-Man posted contrasting pictures of the two assemblies. The differences were appreciable and yet I don't recall anyone closing ranks and crying foul. Perhaps the reason no one objected was because at the time no one's fellow SS supplier friends was stocking and/or selling standard clutch assemblies.

To me (speaking from a personal opinion standpoint) this thread started out as being educational and then turned entertaining but that stopped when attempts of to dismiss and discredit became blatently obvious.

To go into full disclosure mode --- I too am a John Tennis fan and I've stated so in the past. I've spent quite a bit of money with John, I think he does good work and I trust him. The only times I have chose not to purchase what he was offering was because, and only because, I felt it didn't match my specific needs. There was one time that I have to admit that I was wrong however, my feeling is that if you follow a supplier without question you become a vendor groupie therefore I tend to practice due dilligence.

IMHO this thread has lost it's luster. It was educational, and then entertaining but like William Shakespear said, "When you're on stage too long it makes for bad theater."

 

[sprucemt]

Quick long question Ernie.

How old was the axle shaft, how worn was the shaft, was the shaft cut correctly and could the Ouverson, Selectro and or Warn units have possibly done the same thing on the indicator test?

 

[m-35tom]

rizzo, well said and right on target. you get a gold star. too many people comment here, well, more than comment, they state things like they are fact when they don,t have a clue them selves..............

 

[sprucemt]

Are you not all assuming that the AVM hubs di-sected on this post are of new, current manufacture? Could it be possible that the hubs that Gerhard purchased from the Latin American distributor are new old stock from a previous production run?

 

[chevycrew]

What is the difference in new vs. old stock?

 

[Elwenil]

Aren't we getting a little desperate in this to even question production runs? Besides, I would think that would be something that AVM would have mentioned when Gerhard contacted them about the seal issue.

 

[Offroadfabworks]

Aren't we getting a little desperate in this to even question production runs? Besides, I would think that would be something that AVM would have mentioned when Gerhard contacted them about the seal issue.

I even ran outta popcorn... all this was done for was a simple comparison. now guys are getting really wound up over it.

 

[chevycrew]

I just thought they new vs old stock question was kind of funny. So I figured why not humor him and ask the question...

cheers!

 

[Recovry4x4]

opcorn:

 

[DMgunn]

WOW. I shoulda stopped reading a couple of pages ago, before I got irritated.......seems obvious to me that dabtl has a personal stake in this - so many petty comments in what started as a simple comparison.....

You want to compare 1911s? How about ARs, then. Say you see two on a rack at the gun shop. They are both roughly the same price. One is mil-spec, the other is not. The 2nd one also has more upper/lower play........yeah, they will both function the same, and both will likely outlive you, but there is still a difference in quality, no? A difference that you don't need to be an engineer to see......why, then, would you buy the "lesser" one?


P.S. I join the others that are hoping for some 5-ton hubs in the future.

 

[ARMYMAN30YearsPlus]

I love the information in this thread. I will be buying some lockout Oversons soon for the air shift duece and would really like to see ones for the
M818 but then it has a sprag wouldn't that make them less effective? I see the difference between them as a thing like Chevys and Fords some like one and some like the other and some even like MOPAR products. I have something from all of them sitting around the yard.

 

[dabtl]

WOW. I shoulda stopped reading a couple of pages ago, before I got irritated.......seems obvious to me that dabtl has a personal stake in this - so many petty comments in what started as a simple comparison.....

You want to compare 1911s? How about ARs, then. Say you see two on a rack at the gun shop. They are both roughly the same price. One is mil-spec, the other is not. The 2nd one also has more upper/lower play........yeah, they will both function the same, and both will likely outlive you, but there is still a difference in quality, no? A difference that you don't need to be an engineer to see......why, then, would you buy the "lesser" one?


P.S. I join the others that are hoping for some 5-ton hubs in the future.

First, I have no personal stake in any of this. Second, I have watched engineers and machinists argue for years about tolerances, machining and 'quality.'

This entire thread is about a disgruntled machinist's hurt feelings when he attempted to 'correct' the engineers and manufacturers of the AVM hubs. It is as simple as that. Gerhard probably has not seen more than a couple of hundred of these hubs in his lifetime. Yet, he knows much more than those who have made thousands over decades?

The field tests of each of these hubs will show that they each do the job required for an extended period of time. That being the case everyone admits, the differences are the cosmetic exterior and the internal workings. Both of these are legitimate sales approaches to the consumer. But the addition of ball bearings or a gasket type does not in and of itself imply a superior product. Sometimes redundancy, is just that, redundant.

Now, I personally could care less which brand of hub you purchase for your use. I picked the AVM because of my prior dealings with John Tennis. I examined the Ouverson hubs at USA6X6 before the purchase. They were and are very nicely made.

If you are concerned to have only the very best for your personal use, then you have committed to buying the sizzle rather than the steak, a common sales tactic used all the time in retailing everything from TV to AR rifles. Beauty is, after all, in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Recovry4x4]

.......seems obvious to me that dabtl has a personal stake in this -

I don't think so, he's just arguing a case (reminds me of court). In the end its going to be personal preference. Similar to comparing a Cadillac to a Chevrolet, both get the job done. Guess I drive a steak but it's alot cheaper than a sizzle. I might consider a sizzle if it were only a few bucks more (are imported sizzles cold by the time they get here?). Folks, just pick the hub that best suits your needs or your pocketbook.
Just for comparison;

AVMs $595 delivered.
OEMs $595 + $10 handling fee = $605 Shipping $20 to $40. (Would be $27.75 to my place in S FLA).

 

[jatonka]

AVM lockout hubs

The thread on comparison of two brands of lockout hubs for our M35 trucks has gone quite too far into an area that is nt doing anyone much good. I sent one post early on in the thread stating my observations and personal feelings on the topic. I stand by what I posted as being true and accurate information. I have one other comment on the newer part of the thread having to do with the "misalignment of the splines" as brought up by another person. I removed 1 original drive flange from an 8000 mile truck, 1 old AVM from a truck-this hub is one from 1957 vintage, took 1 new AVM out of a box, and 1 Selectro off of my JATonka 4x4 conversion deuce.
I checked all of the hubs and original drive flange on the axle of the truck with 8000 miles. My findings are as follow:
The original drive flange was the loosest fit, the splines were not as deep as any of the lockout hubs.
The old AVM, around since 1957, and the 5 year old Selectro were a little less play than the original.
The new AVM was the tighest fit of all 4 and does have some free play.

My findings are by actually testing the feel on the truck and may not be of mechanical engineer quality, but when I found substanialy more free rotational play in the factory drive flange vs. either AVM,old or new, and the Selectro it put my mind at ease that the quality of the lockout hubs is more than enough to give satisfactory service for these trucks.
I also opened 45 boxes of new selectro #434 M35 Reo lockout hubs and did not find any out of place seals on the engagement knob.
I can't post more than one picture at a time so I will forward them to someone who can post them as a follow up to this. The picture that follows is one of all 4 hubs that I tested
Thank you for your time on this, John Tennis