Deuce Rear Hub Runs Hot

[Lovetofix]

After your 100 foot pound load while spinning then back off then setting preload at 50 foot pounds how far are you backing of that?

Per the -20 there is no 100 lb-ft used.

“Continuously turn wheel (3) while tightening inner adjusting nut (4) 50 lb-ft (68 N•m), then back off inner adjusting nut (4) 1/4- to 1/3-turn.
Install adjusting nut washer (2) and adjusting nut (1). Tighten outer adjusting nut (1) 250-400 lb-ft (339-542 N•m).”

Since I was reusing my bearings I went with the 1/3-turn back from 50 lb-ft. If they were new I would back off a 1/4-turn and to the next hole in the locking ring.


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[Floridianson]

No? Not even if I say it loud? ... repeat it a dozen times?

Nope Not enough friction to cause and over heat.

 

[Floridianson]

Per the -20 there is no 100 lb-ft used.

“Continuously turn wheel (3) while tightening inner adjusting nut (4) 50 lb-ft (68 N•m), then back off inner adjusting nut (4) 1/4- to 1/3-turn.
Install adjusting nut washer (2) and adjusting nut (1). Tighten outer adjusting nut (1) 250-400 lb-ft (339-542 N•m).”

Since I was reusing my bearings I went with the 1/3-turn back from 50 lb-ft. If they were new I would back off a 1/4-turn and to the next hole in the locking ring.
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Look at what the industry calls for the torque on the first seating of the bearing. This is the way I have done it on all my trucks military or nonmilitary. I also pack my trough's. Over heat then preload to tight
.https://www.timken.com/pdf/10410_Manual Wheel Bearing Adj Procedures Sell Sheet.pdf

 

[CommoChief]

The rear-most passenger side hub is the hub in question. No load in the bed of the truck, normal size tires.

Hi Bill

Getting an IR thermoeter is a very good suggestion. To this I would add one question and one suggestion. First the question which hub is running hot. Now to the suggestion start a log book with temps of important assemblies wheels, hubs, transmissions etc. gives an intersting set of bench marks.

Cheers Phil

 

[Lovetofix]

Look at what the industry calls for the torque on the first seating of the bearing. This is the way I have done it on all my trucks military or nonmilitary. I also pack my trough's. Over heat then preload to tight
.https://www.timken.com/pdf/10410_Manual Wheel Bearing Adj Procedures Sell Sheet.pdf

Interesting, and much more precise on the back-off turn. I saved that pdf to my files for future reference.

I can see how that initial high preload would be necessary when installing new bearings. Especially if a press is not used to seat the outer bearing races. In a situation like mine where I simply cleaned the hubs for a repack and did not disturb the outer races I don’t know what would be gained from that added step. 50 lb-ft while rotating is plenty to move the grease off the bearing surfaces.


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[CommoChief]

Interesting you say that simp5702.....The Rockwell guys in Canada told my sons yesterday that we don't need to use the cork to prevent the oil from reaching grease. They said in fact, in the off=road world, they don't use the outer seal either. They DO let the oil lubricate the bearings.

The washing away the grease would not have any effect on that. I run wet hubs on my M939 series truck and the hubs run cooler. I would rather not pack those bearings and let oil do the job over grease.

 

[CommoChief]

1/8 to 1/4 turn

After your 100 foot pound load while spinning then back off then setting preload at 50 foot pounds how far are you backing of that?

 

[CommoChief]

Thanks to everyone for your expertise. My son picked up an IR Thermometer but before taking any readings he changed out the outer seal with an OEM seal (took off the made-in-China seal), and took the truck for a spin. The hub in question "was much cooler infact seems cooler than the other
3 rear hubs now". Apparently he did not have a 9-volt battery for the thermometer at the time so we have no readings however I will take some initial readings tomorrow and begin a log as a few of you have suggested.

 

[gringeltaube]

Interesting, and much more precise on the back-off turn.

It still is remarkable that they (Timken) are happy with such a wide range of free-play; going from what I would consider "almost nothing" (0.001") up to 5 times as much (0.005").
>0.1mm play may be on the safe side still, but certainly causes a clearly audible knocking while rocking the wheel assembly.
(been there - done it..., more than often!)

 

[cattlerepairman]

Interesting you say that simp5702.....The Rockwell guys in Canada told my sons yesterday that we don't need to use the cork to prevent the oil from reaching grease. They said in fact, in the off=road world, they don't use the outer seal either. They DO let the oil lubricate the bearings.

Not with the stock inner seals, you won't. They are not designed to keep oil in (that is why gear oil that leaks past the outer seal runs down on the inside of the rims after a shortcut through the brake drums. The inner seals keep dirt out and grease in, that's about it. If it was as simple as leaving the outer seal and cork off for the hubs to run hunky dory, we would have been doing that already.

Maybe that works in an offroad setting where you do not care about oil leaks if you do not have drum brakes on that axle, but certainly not in an on the road application.

 

[Floridianson]

Last time I did the IR gun on a greased bearing with outer rubber seal unloaded they all were real close to 120*. Yes friction from rubber is friction and could add something to the total. Now to me if all three were running at 120 and one was 175* I don't think I would be looking at the outer seal. Question is what normal to hot to over heated OP said 370* that to me is trouble.

 

[CMPPhil]

Hi Bill

Glad you are making progress, reason I asked about position of the hot hub is with my trucks I have noted that usually it will be the passenger or right side of the truck which will run noticebly hotter. Both tires and hubs, reason around here is high crown of the roads tilling the truck to that side. Proved this out by measuring temps at start and end of longer drive on the interstate which showed wheel and hubs within a few degrees.

Will add that the one time I didn't find the reason for one front HUB being 20 degrees hotter than normal, the next time I drove it nearly lost that wheel and hub the nut was backing off. So now part of my end trip routine is to walk around the truck with the IR gun and check temps.

Cheers Phil

 

[Lovetofix]

Question is what normal to hot to over heated OP said 370* that to me is trouble.

Floridianson, that was my M817 not the OP’s deuce that had the 370* hub. That temp was taken just after coming down a 1-1/2 mile 8-10% grade so there was brake heat involved. Prior to that mountain grade, that hub was around 340 * and the other three were between 280*-290* with the fronts at 140*. This was fully loaded with an ambient temperature of 105* in the shade, and my first significant drive after changing the hub seals. My next long trip with the truck the rear hubs stayed around 165* except that one was 180* loaded or not. I am keeping a very close eye on that rearmost driver side hub and I think it might be brake related. That wheel is the first to lockup if I brake hard on gravel.


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[davidb56]

brakes will transfer heat and shouldn't be overlooked.

 

[Lovetofix]

brakes will transfer heat and shouldn't be overlooked.

Prior to coming down the mountain the brake drums were all cooler than the hub except for the hottest one which was the same temp. Due to the amount of contact and the mass of metal, the hub and brake drum act as a heat sink for each other and pretty quickly the temperatures will equalize.


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[Floridianson]

Hi Bill

Glad you are making progress, reason I asked about position of the hot hub is with my trucks I have noted that usually it will be the passenger or right side of the truck which will run noticebly hotter. Both tires and hubs, reason around here is high crown of the roads tilling the truck to that side. Proved this out by measuring temps at start and end of longer drive on the interstate which showed wheel and hubs within a few degrees.

Will add that the one time I didn't find the reason for one front HUB being 20 degrees hotter than normal, the next time I drove it nearly lost that wheel and hub the nut was backing off. So now part of my end trip routine is to walk around the truck with the IR gun and check temps.
Cheers Phil

Yep leaning with just a little more weight to one side.

brakes will transfer heat and shouldn't be overlooked.

Yep got to measure drum too. Last time I did the IR I tried to slow down off the highway in to the rest area with no brakes till the very. Got to love a Jake Brake but that was my 915.