Deuce Winch Issue - grinding under load

[gimpyrobb]

Freespool is just that, a disconnect from the driveline. The brake is attached to the end of the worm gear so when you push the clutch in, it stops spinning. Some argue its to hold the load, but I doubt very much you could spin the winch from weight on the cable(lets see how many people that gets going!).

 

[m16ty]

Worm drives inherently don't want to spin backwards. They will if enough load is applied but that mostly is when you lift a heavy weight off the ground.

I agree, back the brake off. It causes more problems than it solves.

 

[BrianScott777]

Winch fixed, thanks for your help.

Update: Thanks Gimpy. The brake was the issue. The truck was, and is, back in service. Relatively inexpensive fix too.

 

[tommys2patrick]

I hope this is not hijacking--is the brake then just to put tension on the cable for spooling in and out. a light drag on the line so to speak or in case the cable breaks? anyone know that's reading?

 

[m16ty]

I hope this is not hijacking--is the brake then just to put tension on the cable for spooling in and out. a light drag on the line so to speak or in case the cable breaks? anyone know that's reading?

The brake's only purpose is to hold the load when you stop winching. It is supposed to release somewhat when winching in but usually it's still dragging. Any time you power out the brake is working against you.

 

[tommys2patrick]

Based on sketch 2 from Gringletaube's post it looks like a simple band around a drum with constant tension. I presume it is adjusted for a certain drag so that it can be freespooled. does it somehow tighten up under load in or load out? kind of like a sprague clutch or perhaps more like a band style oil filter wrench? where it only tightens under load?

 

[Squirt-Truck]

The band break is specifically for holding the load when the drive is disengaged. It is a directional self energizing band brake. (Little load in the pull direction and a lot of load in the unwind.) Yes the winch will spool off under load if the brake is out of adjustment. Self locking worm drives are much higher ratio than our winches. The overrunning brake, that prevents uncontrolled unwind, is opposite the drive and pressed against the end of the drum spool. It has a slot adjuster.

 

[gringeltaube]

Now, after re-reading post#1 (again):

.... extended about 70' of cable, put it in low range, released the drum brake, engaged the front clutch and put the pto into low. It began to spool until tension. Once the weight of the opposing truck was fully on the cable, it stopped pulling and made a noise similar to grinding a gear.

It's really hard to believe that just re-adjusting the band brake fixed the original problem.

"Stopped pulling" means to me that the cable & drum and thus the input shaft, came to a halt. So if the winch drum(clutch) remained engaged all the time; there are no broken teeth and no sheared keys anywhere; shear pin intact; no protective overload-clutch that can slip - everything from the PTO output shaft down to the winch brake drum (#25) acting like a solid piece - how was this even possible without killing the engine?


G.

 

[Squirt-Truck]

The back brake will sometimes chatter when spooling out under tension. If it stopped moving it had to kill the engine or slip the main clutch. (ouch)
Something is broken.

 

[rchalmers3]

Something is rotten in Denmark.

Rick

 

[gringeltaube]

My deuce is a workhorse doing daily beach pull outs, mud pull outs etc. ................
My winch doesn't pull well at all........ Once the weight of the opposing truck was fully on the cable, it stopped pulling.........................
.....The brake was the issue.....

So life is good and no more issues with this?



G.

 

[BrianScott777]

As stated gringel, the issue is resolved. The pto linkage was slightly bent. Replaced one of the linkage rods, re-adjusted, as it appeared to my mechanic that the gears were not fully engaging. Took the front brake cover off and found a rusty mess. Replaced most of the guts, and adjusted the brake as far as possible.
Done a dozen winch-outs since and its worked flawlessly.

Not quite sure what the guy is smelling, or why he's in Denmark...

Not sure what, or why some of you fellas require proof? Suety bond? Statement under oath? Note from mom?

Rest easy gentleman, the truck is fixed. And believe me, I wish I could sit around waiting for something to reply to, but alas, I'm busy making a living. I check the site occasionally

 

[gringeltaube]

No Sir, no proof requested for anything...

We all have other things to do - besides trying to help someone out who comes here posting about a mysterious problem with his winch. Your case was not what I would call a common, every-day issue, so it sparked my interest, at least.

It just matters to most of us readers- and future generations, too- to hopefully find a thread like this ending with a clear- and logical explanation, of what exactly happened and how the issue was solved.

In this case, fixing the band brake was only part of the correcting actions taken- and certainly not an explanation to why the winch could have stopped under load!
The PTO not fully engaging- and/or jumping out of gear was the missing part of the story...

It's all clear now and let's move on.



G.

 

[BrianScott777]

gringeltaube,
and everyone who took the time to respond with their knowledge. I appreciate the help!

I wasn't trying to infer that you or anyone else doesn't work, merely issuing a fact in mitigation of my absence and lack of immediate response.

Just purchased and brought home a BMY M925 which has made me appreciate the genius of the deuce in it's simplicity. The number of hydraulic hoses on the new truck are a bit overwhelming (and I drive a wrecker).

Without the knowledge of the men such as yourself, people like me would surely be lost, that's why I felt it necessary to state once again how grateful I am for your, and others like you, time in diagnosing the issue.

I never knew that the band brake even existed prior to your post. Checked the TM, looked at the truck, and I learned something.

I thoroughly enjoy this website, mainly for the years of knowledge and combined experience, but most of all for the crass humor. The deadpan sarcasm, and the quick to pounce on a weak spot is enjoyable. Much is lost in the written word, and on page three of this thread, it seemed as if the tone became accusatory.

At any rate, my fleet continues to grow. Now with the Deuce, the 5 ton, and sooner or later a m998, I'm sure I'll be back asking for advise, so I wanted to make sure not to burn down the bridge.

Best Regards