FLU419 SEE HMMH HME Owners group

[Knobby57]

It's been off for a couple years. Don't need the extra weight. When something falls from the sky whilst I'm sitting in it, I'll take it as a sign. Looks better without also.

I actually need one of these . What will
It cast me to ship to pa

 

[Pinsandpitons]

I actually need one of these . What will
It cast me to ship to pa

I don’t know. If you want to ship it there, you should contact some shipping people‘s and get a quote, I’ll help load it, but I have too many irons in the fire to do that legwork for you. Sorry.

 

[The FLU farm]

Realized that I screwed up. This was supposed to be posted here on the owner's thread.

And....screwed up again. Was asked not to post for sale stuff here, and delete the post.

 

[brandan34]

Now that I am putting things back together I am starting to mess with the air system. Is there such a thing as an air diagram similar to the wiring diagram? Anything on the air system I should be expecting to be messed up with a mog that has been sitting for a long time?

 

[Knobby57]

Now that I am putting things back together I am starting to mess with the air system. Is there such a thing as an air diagram similar to the wiring diagram? Anything on the air system I should be expecting to be messed up with a mog that has been sitting for a long time?

 

[glcaines]

What you need is the student handout.

 

[brandan34]

Thanks that will help a lot

 

[Migginsbros]

There is a FLU419 SEE at the vote thread for MV of the month. Have a look.

Steel Soldiers MV of the month 2023 - January VOTE HERE!

Bump....... We will be back, soon. :cool: :cool:

www.steelsoldiers.com

 

[brandan34]

Priming the engine problems. When I go to prime the engine by hand it seems like there is a problem with the check value. If I pump fast enough I can fill the first filter, but as soon as I stop it starts dropping fast. I checked the small check valve beside the primer, it looks fine. I traded it with another one I have handy no change. I have not checked the one that is in the pump that is driven off the side of the high pressure pump, but figuring it has to be messed up and will check it next time I wonder out with a 3/4 socket set.

At this point I just prime it with an air hose on the vent of the fuel tank and the engine runs great . I am very happy to hear that thing run. On the other hand I would like to get this nailed down before I put the cab on in case I ever have a problem and do not have an air supply handy. Anyone else have problems with check values on the priming system?


I have gotten to prime it several times running down small air leaks where I did not tighten stuff enough and lost prime over a few hours and I always see this problem where the fuel leaks out of the filters fast. Sometimes it will work as expected on the first filter, but every time I have tried it by hand, once the fuel hits the second filter it starts dropping very fast and I lose my fuel from the first one as well no matter how fast I work the primer.



Side note I do have a new one primer from EI and the fuel system including inside the tank was one of the few things that was clean on this mog plus all new fuel hoses.

 

[glcaines]

Interesting. I have never had to prime my FLU419 even if it has been sitting for weeks without running. It always starts immediately.

 

[The FLU farm]

Interesting. I have never had to prime my FLU419 even if it has been sitting for weeks without running. It always starts immediately.

Same here, weeks or several months. Actually started one the other day that had been parked for several years, without priming it first.

But, it was different when I had all the air leaks in the system on the Summer SEE. Once familiar with what all Bel-Metric has to offer and had replaced some hoses, washers, etc. it was much better. Then, after putting an O-ring (instead of the gasket) on the strainer cup, it became perfect.

 

[The FLU farm]

And now there's only one.

Yesterday the nice one started it's journey to it's new owner in Texas, a Steel Soldiers member.

 

[The FLU farm]

Since the unloader valve on the remaining HMMH had been acting up for quite a while, when it quit completely it was time to do something.

Didn't feel like spending some $200 just to see if the valve was indeed the problem, but found what seemed like a good replacement for under $40 on Amazon. It was indeed the problem, and a Wabco 975-303-473-0 works just fine.

As delivered it cut out at 120 psi, but two turns on the adjuster took it down to 95.

 

[glcaines]

When I replaced my unloader, I found the identical same model as you on Ebay for $49.44 with free shipping. It was a new WA9753034730 from National Drivetrain. Like you I simply adjusted the cutout pressure. I bought it in 2020 and it hasn't given me any trouble. I did have to purchase a couple of fittings that attach to it from EI because they were so corroded. I attached a photo of my new unloader installation. I see you have a different alcohol system than mine. My alcohol tank was filled completely with Iraqi sand. The rest of the system was OK except for the hose, which made your hose look new.

 

[The FLU farm]

I see you have a different alcohol system than mine. My alcohol tank was filled completely with Iraqi sand. The rest of the system was OK except for the hose, which made your hose look new.

Yeah, the tank and hose were taken from a tan FLU. I'm not hooking it up again as (so far) I've never had one freeze up even without any alcohol injection.
It helps that it's dry here, and rarely gets down to -20.

What did surprise me was how much oil was in the system. Guess that's a result of the unloader valve not having worked correctly for quite a while.

 

[peakbagger]

Priming the engine problems. When I go to prime the engine by hand it seems like there is a problem with the check value. If I pump fast enough I can fill the first filter, but as soon as I stop it starts dropping fast. I checked the small check valve beside the primer, it looks fine. I traded it with another one I have handy no change. I have not checked the one that is in the pump that is driven off the side of the high pressure pump, but figuring it has to be messed up and will check it next time I wonder out with a 3/4 socket set.

At this point I just prime it with an air hose on the vent of the fuel tank and the engine runs great . I am very happy to hear that thing run. On the other hand I would like to get this nailed down before I put the cab on in case I ever have a problem and do not have an air supply handy. Anyone else have problems with check values on the priming system?


I have gotten to prime it several times running down small air leaks where I did not tighten stuff enough and lost prime over a few hours and I always see this problem where the fuel leaks out of the filters fast. Sometimes it will work as expected on the first filter, but every time I have tried it by hand, once the fuel hits the second filter it starts dropping very fast and I lose my fuel from the first one as well no matter how fast I work the primer.



Side note I do have a new one primer from EI and the fuel system including inside the tank was one of the few things that was clean on this mog plus all new fuel hoses.

Not sure if I have responded to your post, if so never mind, but if not;

My See gets parked for the winter and inevitably loses the prime in the fuel system. I chased air leaks on the suction side of the fuel pump initially. I and others have found that the plastic fuel lines can on occasion leak under vacuum but not under pressure. Its an issue with many models of Mercedes and the fix is usually to find a hose with with the same ID as the OD of the plastic lines. Then cut a short piece the size of hose clamp and slit it lengthwise and slide it over the connection than install a hose clamp over it. preferably you use a fuel injection hose clamp but a worm gear type also works. Also look carefully with flashlight and mirror at the fittings at the top of the tank that are tucked up under the frame rail. In most cases the tank needs to be removed to work on them.

The last item is that there is check/pressure relief valve mounted on or inside the injection pump. After a couple of winter seasons, that appears to be my issue. The injection pump uses fuel as a lubricant and is supposed to be full of it. The this relief vavle appears to leak down over a winter. I rigged up a outboard motor fuel tank with a squeeze bulb out of desperation after the first winter and hooked it directly on the discharge of the dual fuel filters. I would set the tank on the roof and squeeze the bulb until I felt pressure. it would usually start up as long as I kept squeezing the bulb since the fuel pump was not connected. It was messy and PITA with one person. I mentioned this to another SEE owner who also knows Mogs in general. He speculated the injector pump was draining out over the winter. He suggested pumping the new style Bosch primer pump multiple times until I heard the injector pump relieve. It takes 50 or 60 pumps and I hear a "burp" "fart" of "wheeze" back near the injector pump and then it starts right up. Its not loud but it is distinctive. I have done this two years in row for my first start of the spring. A lot easier than the boat tank. My friend usually drains the filter cans and put in pure injector cleaner then he cranks the engine over and lets it sit when he gets any ex military mog (he is large dealer of used Mogs) and claims that that is probably the best thing.

BTW Probably should be separate post but a FYI is that the injection pump is always recirculating fuel to the tank from this relief valve. The piping back to the tank is exposed near where the engine cover latches into place. It is possible that this hose can get damaged fitting the engine cover back in place and that is not good as its source of diesel being poured on a hot engine. My hose was pretty dry rotted when I got it. I dont hear of lot of SEE burning to crisp so it may not be a major issue but worth looking at.

If you have the cab off, I would spend some time with the complete throttle linkage, in many cases the throttle pedal shaft and nylon bushing is worn or bent and the roller assembly is out of alignment with the curved landing pad. Worth spending time taking a real good look. EI has the throttle shaft and bushing. The other thing to do is tug at all the small ball joints in the fuel rods. They are supposed to be retained from coming apart by tiny spring clips. They are not that hard to take out but with my hand's way to small and fussy to put back in place without the cab flipped up or removed. The ball joints will still work but they could pop off. I know mine is missing at least two and it nearly stranded me once.

 

[Mullaney]

Not sure if I have responded to your post, if so never mind, but if not;

My See gets parked for the winter and inevitably loses the prime in the fuel system. I chased air leaks on the suction side of the fuel pump initially. I and others have found that the plastic fuel lines can on occasion leak under vacuum but not under pressure. Its an issue with many models of Mercedes and the fix is usually to find a hose with with the same ID as the OD of the plastic lines. Then cut a short piece the size of hose clamp and slit it lengthwise and slide it over the connection than install a hose clamp over it. preferably you use a fuel injection hose clamp but a worm gear type also works. Also look carefully with flashlight and mirror at the fittings at the top of the tank that are tucked up under the frame rail. In most cases the tank needs to be removed to work on them.

The last item is that there is check/pressure relief valve mounted on or inside the injection pump. After a couple of winter seasons, that appears to be my issue. The injection pump uses fuel as a lubricant and is supposed to be full of it. The this relief vavle appears to leak down over a winter. I rigged up a outboard motor fuel tank with a squeeze bulb out of desperation after the first winter and hooked it directly on the discharge of the dual fuel filters. I would set the tank on the roof and squeeze the bulb until I felt pressure. it would usually start up as long as I kept squeezing the bulb since the fuel pump was not connected. It was messy and PITA with one person. I mentioned this to another SEE owner who also knows Mogs in general. He speculated the injector pump was draining out over the winter. He suggested pumping the new style Bosch primer pump multiple times until I heard the injector pump relieve. It takes 50 or 60 pumps and I hear a "burp" "fart" of "wheeze" back near the injector pump and then it starts right up. Its not loud but it is distinctive. I have done this two years in row for my first start of the spring. A lot easier than the boat tank. My friend usually drains the filter cans and put in pure injector cleaner then he cranks the engine over and lets it sit when he gets any ex military mog (he is large dealer of used Mogs) and claims that that is probably the best thing.

BTW Probably should be separate post but a FYI is that the injection pump is always recirculating fuel to the tank from this relief valve. The piping back to the tank is exposed near where the engine cover latches into place. It is possible that this hose can get damaged fitting the engine cover back in place and that is not good as its source of diesel being poured on a hot engine. My hose was pretty dry rotted when I got it. I dont hear of lot of SEE burning to crisp so it may not be a major issue but worth looking at.

If you have the cab off, I would spend some time with the complete throttle linkage, in many cases the throttle pedal shaft and nylon bushing is worn or bent and the roller assembly is out of alignment with the curved landing pad. Worth spending time taking a real good look. EI has the throttle shaft and bushing. The other thing to do is tug at all the small ball joints in the fuel rods. They are supposed to be retained from coming apart by tiny spring clips. They are not that hard to take out but with my hand's way to small and fussy to put back in place without the cab flipped up or removed. The ball joints will still work but they could pop off. I know mine is missing at least two and it nearly stranded me once.

.
Nice write-up @peakbagger !
Good information...

 

[brandan34]

Not sure if I have responded to your post, if so never mind, but if not;

My See gets parked for the winter and inevitably loses the prime in the fuel system. I chased air leaks on the suction side of the fuel pump initially. I and others have found that the plastic fuel lines can on occasion leak under vacuum but not under pressure. Its an issue with many models of Mercedes and the fix is usually to find a hose with with the same ID as the OD of the plastic lines. Then cut a short piece the size of hose clamp and slit it lengthwise and slide it over the connection than install a hose clamp over it. preferably you use a fuel injection hose clamp but a worm gear type also works. Also look carefully with flashlight and mirror at the fittings at the top of the tank that are tucked up under the frame rail. In most cases the tank needs to be removed to work on them.

The last item is that there is check/pressure relief valve mounted on or inside the injection pump. After a couple of winter seasons, that appears to be my issue. The injection pump uses fuel as a lubricant and is supposed to be full of it. The this relief vavle appears to leak down over a winter. I rigged up a outboard motor fuel tank with a squeeze bulb out of desperation after the first winter and hooked it directly on the discharge of the dual fuel filters. I would set the tank on the roof and squeeze the bulb until I felt pressure. it would usually start up as long as I kept squeezing the bulb since the fuel pump was not connected. It was messy and PITA with one person. I mentioned this to another SEE owner who also knows Mogs in general. He speculated the injector pump was draining out over the winter. He suggested pumping the new style Bosch primer pump multiple times until I heard the injector pump relieve. It takes 50 or 60 pumps and I hear a "burp" "fart" of "wheeze" back near the injector pump and then it starts right up. Its not loud but it is distinctive. I have done this two years in row for my first start of the spring. A lot easier than the boat tank. My friend usually drains the filter cans and put in pure injector cleaner then he cranks the engine over and lets it sit when he gets any ex military mog (he is large dealer of used Mogs) and claims that that is probably the best thing.

BTW Probably should be separate post but a FYI is that the injection pump is always recirculating fuel to the tank from this relief valve. The piping back to the tank is exposed near where the engine cover latches into place. It is possible that this hose can get damaged fitting the engine cover back in place and that is not good as its source of diesel being poured on a hot engine. My hose was pretty dry rotted when I got it. I dont hear of lot of SEE burning to crisp so it may not be a major issue but worth looking at.

If you have the cab off, I would spend some time with the complete throttle linkage, in many cases the throttle pedal shaft and nylon bushing is worn or bent and the roller assembly is out of alignment with the curved landing pad. Worth spending time taking a real good look. EI has the throttle shaft and bushing. The other thing to do is tug at all the small ball joints in the fuel rods. They are supposed to be retained from coming apart by tiny spring clips. They are not that hard to take out but with my hand's way to small and fussy to put back in place without the cab flipped up or removed. The ball joints will still work but they could pop off. I know mine is missing at least two and it nearly stranded me once.

Thanks for the detailed write up.

I did end up opening the pump all the way, very simple inside and no check value other than the one that can be removed from the outside. At this point I have replaced all of the fuel hoses on the mog and tightened all the new clamps and after a week it is still primed so I am happy with that. I am not overly thrilled with how hard it was to prime so I am thinking there is still something I am missing.

What would it act like when I prime it if the relief valve is stuck open? Last time I primed it I payed very close attention to what was happening. I would just about have it, fuel in both filters, but still some air, then it acted like it got to the point where it could go back by gravity though the return system once it hit that point it drained faster than I could pump it and thus made my life hard. I did figure out an air compressor on the tank vent makes a fast prime


Yeah the linkages, pedal and hand throttle are all missing on my mog. I figured I would get to spend an evening making those once I get the cab back on and can figure out where and how they should go. I am currently thinking the next step will be having the cab back on, and tilting it forward and back often as I work out the throttle, brake and clutch systems along with a new tank for the coolant(I do not care for the plastic ones, that is just a problem waiting to happen and mine is toast anyway).

Then I get the joy of building a dog house and hood. I hear enough complaints about those two that I am going to see if I can do better.

 

[MajorMogger]

Posted this on benzworld too but wanted to get feedback on if anyone has replaced this seal before and had tips/writeup/challenge-level info. Has oil and air leaking out of it. I posted about this a few months back but at that time wasn't sure where the leak was from. This is front driverside axle

 

[brandan34]

Looks like you need to download 5-2420-224-34 and then start around page 5-16 STEERING KNUCKLE AND FRONT AXLE FINAL DRIVE REPLACEMENT.

I am pretty sure that will cover what you are doing. I think step 11 is your seal.

Looking it over, it does not look too bad. There are a number of seals a person can mess up and probably should plan on replacing, and two bearings to pull. From the pics the bearings look like easy ones to pull but not sure as I have not done it and I have found a few over the years that are near impossible. With a possible exception of that it looks fairly straight forward. On the flip side I will also note it is in the 3rd level book so not something they expect the average soldier to do.

If that does not get you all the way to the seal you need, do above then go to page 16-25 STEERING KNUCKLE AND FRONT AXLE FINAL DRIVE REPAIR

That will take you the rest of the way through the steering Knuckle.