Adrian A
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Thanks for the help Tom. Much appreciated.
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injection pump question m35a2
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gimpyrobb
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Pull the HH, spin it around once and bolt it back in. Can't hurt to try it.
Adrian A
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Hmm.....ok. Cant hurt. This is new to me. How would you know it's correct the first time? Now 180 out makes sense.
Adrian A
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I think. Please elaborate a bit. If I rotate it 360` wouldn't the red mark need another full turn to come back around?
Adrian A
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Yes please elaborate. I'm lost. If you rotate it 360`, the red mark would actually be back in position. But, what would that accomplish? Doesn't the head only make one rotation with the engine making two rotations during a complete four stroke cycle? What am I missing?
Jeepsinker
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No, you don't turn it 360, you only turn the hh 180.
Adrian A
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So, how does this affect the gear with the red tooth? Would it make a full 360° when the head is only 180°?
gimpyrobb
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I might have posted wrong. I'll PM a phone number.
Adrian A
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Sounds good. I'll call after work.
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the crank and the IP turn at the same speed, the HH turns at cam speed. the HH is easy for the inexperienced to get in 180° out in relation to the cam. but it will still try to run, just very poorly. it is very easy to verify, if the #1 piston is at top of compression stroke (TDC) and red tooth shows just to the rear of removal mark (in shutoff cover), it is right.
#1 TDC on compression is when both valves remain closed as crank goes by timing mark, #6 valves are at overlap, ie exhaust just closed and intake just opened. there is a moment when both valves are just barely open.
there is a timing mark on the crank, but only every other time it goes by is it firing on #1. same for the IP timing window, the mark goes by twice but only one time is it injecting on #1
it may seem confusing at first, but once you fully understand it, it is real simple.
#1 TDC on compression is when both valves remain closed as crank goes by timing mark, #6 valves are at overlap, ie exhaust just closed and intake just opened. there is a moment when both valves are just barely open.
there is a timing mark on the crank, but only every other time it goes by is it firing on #1. same for the IP timing window, the mark goes by twice but only one time is it injecting on #1
it may seem confusing at first, but once you fully understand it, it is real simple.
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Tom he said he took apart the whole IP. If the IP was off the motor and taken apart then could not the IP be off 360* from the head.This is something you can not correct by just rotating the HH. To correct this is almost a nightmare as he would have to take off the pump take off the HH rotate the IP 360* watching the 4 bolt timming mark then try and install the HH back but with the red scribe mark on it's pointer. I tryed to measure as close as I could and to get the head to go in right. I put a new timming mark 5/8 inch before the four bolt cover mark turning it clockwise looking from the front of the IP. This allowed the HH to be scribe on pointer for install and when the IP was turned to 4 bolt cover correct mark the HH was one tooth to the rear. Now this was useing shadetree mechanics so the 5/8 is real close but it might need tweeking. That's why I said nightmare. Guys not saying do not try and fix stuff but most of the time just replace the HH or replace the whole IP all ready set up and correct.
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Yes sorry this will not work.
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To elaborate some on post #51, first you must know that #1 piston is on TDC compression stroke, learn how to do that if you don't know.
Next line up the appropriate mark on the crank pulley. Then you need to understand that there is only one timing mark on the IP in the top window, but it comes up twice. One is wrong and one is right. With the HH out, and with the little cutout spot on the HH drive gear pointing nearly at the center of the HH hole, that is the correct position. Line up the mark on the IP and tighten the bolts on the IP main drive gear. Now with the two timing marks lined up and TDC on compression, all that is set right. Next turn the engine BACKWARDS until the plunger that pushes the HH piston is at the bottom of it's stroke. Now the HH should drop right in with the red marked tooth in line with the removal pointer in the shutoff window.
So since the crank turns 2 times for each cycle, intake, compression, power, exhaust, you must be on the correct revolution of the crank, same with the IP since it turns at crank speed, but the HH turns at half that speed (camshaft speed) That is how the HH gets out by 180°, either the crank or the IP is off by one turn.
Next line up the appropriate mark on the crank pulley. Then you need to understand that there is only one timing mark on the IP in the top window, but it comes up twice. One is wrong and one is right. With the HH out, and with the little cutout spot on the HH drive gear pointing nearly at the center of the HH hole, that is the correct position. Line up the mark on the IP and tighten the bolts on the IP main drive gear. Now with the two timing marks lined up and TDC on compression, all that is set right. Next turn the engine BACKWARDS until the plunger that pushes the HH piston is at the bottom of it's stroke. Now the HH should drop right in with the red marked tooth in line with the removal pointer in the shutoff window.
So since the crank turns 2 times for each cycle, intake, compression, power, exhaust, you must be on the correct revolution of the crank, same with the IP since it turns at crank speed, but the HH turns at half that speed (camshaft speed) That is how the HH gets out by 180°, either the crank or the IP is off by one turn.
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Adrian A
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As long as these instructions are followed and satisfactory, there should be no timing issue right? Reguardless of what was disassembled. Although something else could be incorrect.
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gimpyrobb
dumpsterlandingfromorbit!
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Too small to read, can you attach as a pdf?
Adrian A
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Ok. I installed a brand new injection pump. It will start with ether and will run fine above 900 rpm. It will not start on its own. Nor will it idle. It smokes excessively too. I have been running straight wmo in it and now think maybe the fuel is bad. It ran the same with the other pump. I guess i'll drain the fuel tomorrow and try again. Maybe my old pump is good too? Would connecting the fuel density compensator help. Ive been running wmo for a year now with no issue and the fdc disconnected. I swear it runs like bad fuel.
gimpyrobb
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Maybe the injectors are coked? Sounds like your original pump might be good.
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define 'brand new', if you just mean a different pump, it could just as easily have a bad HH as well. are you sure it is not 180° out of time? when installing the whole IP there are two positions it can go in and have the timing mark lined up, only one is correct.
Adrian A
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I am positive it is not 180 out. I set it to tdc via the #1 valves.I have installed enough distributers to understand this. I believe it is a depot rebuild from 1995. It is an Ambac with a date tag on it. It is certainly not a used take out. I did notice this, it was running and I was cracking open the injector lines to bleed air, some would make the engine stumble and drop rpm. Three i believe, had little effect. Maybe I didnt loosen them enough.
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and the red tooth was also showing when you set TDC? just to make sure. i have also seen ambac HHs that were bad out of the box (rebuilt ones) excessive smoke could be several things, but is always incomplete combustion for some usually simple reason. injectors not spraying could be one of them, but after the pistons are hot it should stop or at least diminish.