M1078A1 "Pandora" Build | 2024-??? | ***Picture Heavy***

[Lostchain]

You could buy a STE/ICE kit so you can perform the hydraulic tests required by the TM…..?

US ARMY INTERCONNECTING BOX, ICE, DEARBORN PROTOCOL III PLUS , DATA BUS KIT | eBay

DEARBOARN PROTOCOL III PLUS. INTECONNECTING BOX, ICE. REALLY NICE CONDITION, LOOKS LIKE MOST OF IT HAS NEVER BEEN USED.

www.ebay.com

 

[flyfishtrailer]

Your pump and the hand pump need to be rebuilt. There are several write ups in here on both. 20 + year old seals have gone bad. I know Colt did a video on rebuilding the pump, and I am sure there are also probably videos of rebuilding (or replacing) the hand pump. Have you checked the fluid levels in the pump reservoir?

 

[Ronmar]

F=MA… Oops wrong formula

PSI X piston surface area = force… You have to build enough pressure to lift the cab, ~ 1500PSI to be exact for a typical cab. Your pumps are obviously having issues doing that, or fluid is leaking from supply to return preventing full pressure Buildup. so as mentioned rebuild them. When y0u checked fluid level, did you check the hand pump/ it has a filler in the left front corner when facing the pump. The valving is supposed to keep it full, but that may not be functioning properly. Oil around the pump shaft is not a good sign though… The fact it opens the latch and lifts a little and that you were able to help it lift says it is making some pressure, just insufficient to do it unassisted.

 

[aw113sgte]

You could buy a STE/ICE kit so you can perform the hydraulic tests required by the TM…..?

US ARMY INTERCONNECTING BOX, ICE, DEARBORN PROTOCOL III PLUS , DATA BUS KIT | eBay

DEARBOARN PROTOCOL III PLUS. INTECONNECTING BOX, ICE. REALLY NICE CONDITION, LOOKS LIKE MOST OF IT HAS NEVER BEEN USED.

www.ebay.com

Pretty much useless without the software to interface with it, which so far seems to be unobtainable for this generation of kit

 

[Aviator4x4]

You could buy a STE/ICE kit so you can perform the hydraulic tests required by the TM…..?

US ARMY INTERCONNECTING BOX, ICE, DEARBORN PROTOCOL III PLUS , DATA BUS KIT | eBay

DEARBOARN PROTOCOL III PLUS. INTECONNECTING BOX, ICE. REALLY NICE CONDITION, LOOKS LIKE MOST OF IT HAS NEVER BEEN USED.

www.ebay.com

I have looked at buying one since I imagine I'll be doing many diagnostics on the truck but based on these forums, the software is the hard piece to find (along with the $600+ pricetag).

 

[Aviator4x4]

Your pump and the hand pump need to be rebuilt. There are several write ups in here on both. 20 + year old seals have gone bad. I know Colt did a video on rebuilding the pump, and I am sure there are also probably videos of rebuilding (or replacing) the hand pump. Have you checked the fluid levels in the pump reservoir?

Thanks, makes sense the seals are toast. Sudden seal failure at these pressures is definitely possible, just wasn't sure that was the cause. I'll go the 2x pump rebuild route. Just finished reading this thread, found Colt and Fastidioud rebuild videos, and while the individual seals, u cup, and poly washer are "obsolete" from MRO, the full kit that Colt used was available so I ordered that.

FMTV Air Hydraulic Unit Repair

Crud. Looks like I need to rebuild mine. Lowering the cab trying to get the cab lock pin to retract and all I'm seeing are clouds of mist coming out of the unit. It's not too hard to do. Gotta have a clean work area and don't put the new gasket in backwards

www.steelsoldiers.com

F=MA… Oops wrong formula

PSI X piston surface area = force… You have to build enough pressure to lift the cab, ~ 1500PSI to be exact for a typical cab. Your pumps are obviously having issues doing that, or fluid is leaking from supply to return preventing full pressure Buildup. so as mentioned rebuild them. When y0u checked fluid level, did you check the hand pump/ it has a filler in the left front corner when facing the pump. The valving is supposed to keep it full, but that may not be functioning properly. Oil around the pump shaft is not a good sign though… The fact it opens the latch and lifts a little and that you were able to help it lift says it is making some pressure, just insufficient to do it unassisted.

Thanks for the explanation and confirmation RonMar. Your knowledge of the trucks and their systems is impressive. I've ordered an A/HPU rebuild kit (SPX P/N 300140) and 2x "exact fit replacement" washers for the now obsolete SPX P/N 17429 (SPX P/N HDT 17429)

I did consider an electric pump that met gpm and pressure specs you listed or that neat double action hand pump youre using in the rebuild thread, but Im not prepared to commit to that right now. Only so much money/time for research, learning, and doing and in this instance would rather rebuild the existing system in the interest of expedience.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

I have looked at buying one since I imagine I'll be doing many diagnostics on the truck but based on these forums, the software is the hard piece to find (along with the $600+ pricetag).

The software is no problem. Send me a thumb drive.

 

[Lostchain]

I have looked at buying one since I imagine I'll be doing many diagnostics on the truck but based on these forums, the software is the hard piece to find (along with the $600+ pricetag).

You absolutely need one of these for an A1, the DPA3 lets you interface with all the computerized systems on the truck. Software is available if you ask on the forum nicely. As far as the price goes, sometimes sellers will offer a lower price if you have it on your watch list. Also there is another seller on eBay selling a nice one for “make an offer” so you could go that route.

If this saves you one trip to CAT to read codes you’ve likely paid for it.

 

[Lostchain]

Pretty much useless without the software to interface with it, which so far seems to be unobtainable for this generation of kit

Fake News, software is available see @GeneralDisorder statement above. In my personal opinion this is the better kit because all the implements are wired. I have this one and a newer Spiral Two and this is the one I go to.

 

[Aviator4x4]

You absolutely need one of these for an A1, the DPA3 lets you interface with all the computerized systems on the truck. Software is available if you ask on the forum nicely. As far as the price goes, sometimes sellers will offer a lower price if you have it on your watch list. Also there is another seller on eBay selling a nice one for “make an offer” so you could go that route.

If this saves you one trip to CAT to read codes you’ve likely paid for it.

Well, you and general disorder convinced me... time to eat Ramen for a month !

 

[Lostchain]

Yeah that hurts, but not much on these trucks is cheap unfortunately. First time you program your CTIS or CAT ECM on your own you'll feel pretty good about yourself. I think @GeneralDisorder can even make you up a nice diag laptop with all the software preloaded if you aren't a techie.

 

[Lostchain]

Also to power the interconnection box, which is what all the analog test pieces hook to, you will need this cable to get 24 volts from the slave port on the truck. You’ll need this to power up the hydraulic pressure sensor needed for the test #51 mentioned in the TM above. Normally that box is powered up by the diag laptop that originally came with this ICE kit.

MILITARY MILTOPE MSD V2 LAPTOP 24V NATO SLAVE PORT POWER CABLE BATTERY CHARGER | eBay

24v nato port power cable for the msd v2. Approx 30 feet long. Power your msd off the trucks single pin slave port. Hard to find part. In most situations you can buy a Square Trade warranty on the item for a small fee.

www.ebay.com

 

[Aviator4x4]

Also to power the interconnection box, which is what all the analog test pieces hook to, you will need this cable to get 24 volts from the slave port on the truck. You’ll need this to power up the hydraulic pressure sensor needed for the test #51 mentioned in the TM above. Normally that box is powered up by the diag laptop that originally came with this ICE kit.

MILITARY MILTOPE MSD V2 LAPTOP 24V NATO SLAVE PORT POWER CABLE BATTERY CHARGER | eBay

24v nato port power cable for the msd v2. Approx 30 feet long. Power your msd off the trucks single pin slave port. Hard to find part. In most situations you can buy a Square Trade warranty on the item for a small fee.

www.ebay.com

Oh hey, one of suprman's listings (I believe). Picked one up as well. Don't have a nato slave receptacle on the truck but that's easy enough to re-terminate and power with whatever else. Looks like center pin is positive.

Thank you so much for your expertise/advisement on this. I obviously would not have known about that power cable, or probably picked up a seemingly complete/nice NOS STE/ICE DPA3 without your push. Going to hit up GeneralDisorder now to see if I can amazon a thumbdrive to his house and see if there are local beer delivery people.

 

[Lostchain]

Oh hey, one of suprman's listings (I believe). Picked one up as well. Don't have a nato slave receptacle on the truck but that's easy enough to re-terminate and power with whatever else. Looks like center pin is positive.

Thank you so much for your expertise/advisement on this. I obviously would not have known about that power cable, or probably picked up a seemingly complete/nice NOS STE/ICE DPA3 without your push. Going to hit up GeneralDisorder now to see if I can amazon a thumbdrive to his house and see if there are local beer delivery people.

The DPA 3 is really the key to the whole thing, you gotta have a good data bus adapter to talk to all the computers that the A1 and up trucks have. All the other analog tools in the kit, could theoretically be fabricated yourself, but if you don’t have them already, why bother. For example the hydraulic test the TM wants you to perform. You could probably make your own with a gauge and source the right fittings but if you didn’t already have one, seems like a little project in and of itself that you might not have time for. I never worked on heavy trucks myself before I got my LMTV, so I was happy to get a kit with all the custom stuff I needed in one shot.

Good luck and be sure to let us know if you have problems getting it operational.

 

[Ronmar]

3000 PSI gauge, 1/4NPT female to JIC-4 male adapter and a JIC4 fem-JIC4fem swivel fitting, and you can connect to most things on the truck. About $30 at Surpluscenter.com? I just ordered some a week or so back for another project...

 

[Aviator4x4]

3000 PSI gauge, 1/4NPT female to JIC-4 male adapter and a JIC4 fem-JIC4fem swivel fitting, and you can connect to most things on the truck. About $30 at Surpluscenter.com? I just ordered some a week or so back for another project...

You sure it's JIC and not AN ?

AN would make more sense to me in this application, and the tolerances are more specific vs JIC.

About 10 years ago we lost power after takeoff in one of the aircraft I flew in after a parts supplier supplied faux AN fittings that were actually JIC. Given that a lot of components in a turbo-prop engine are driven on oil and pressure, and if you're losing it... just after takeoff... bad things start to happen.

How much practical difference does that make in a truck ? Not sure, probably none. But I do have personal experience with 2 different brands of JIC fittings not sealing completely in my diesel colorado. But with true AN fittings, you can mix and match suppliers.

 

[Ronmar]

The hydraulic hoses all use JIC-4 fittings, with JIC4-SAE4 adapters on the back of the manifold and cylinder ports...

 

[Aviator4x4]

The hydraulic hoses all use JIC-4 fittings, with JIC4-SAE4 adapters on the back of the manifold and cylinder ports...

I'm about to order the same Wolverine Prince handpump and reservoir you used in your videos. Thank you !

Since you seem to be a very precise person, I'll say this and hopefully not come off as being disrespectful:

I looked up a couple of those P/N in the -24P and I believe all the fittings are AN-4, not JIC4, based on their thread class requirement of 3B:​

​

Cab Lift Cylinder Hose example:​

12417262-002 Nonmetallic Hose Assembly

Nonmetallic Hose Assembly part number 12417262-002 NSN 4720-01-443-6457.

aerobasegroup.com

​

Back-up Hand Pump hose example #2:​

https://www.parttarget.com/4720-01-426-7848_4720014267848_12420745-006.html

​

JIC4 and AN4 are compatible-ish, and I'd say most of the "AN" hose fittings available online (Evil Energy, aeroquip, russels) are actually JIC 37* fittings unless they specifically list being MIL-PRF-370 compliant. In my opinion for this the practical differences are fairly low but I figured I'd cite some sources if you're interested.​

I'm ordering JIC4 fittings... Not sure if it's a saying on here or not but if it's good enough for Ronmar, it's good enough for me !

 

[Ronmar]

I havn’t had an issue with any of the JIC-4s used on the hydraulics yet, and they are a common use component… maybe at larger sizes but i think at the -4 size, it is a case of the difference making no difference when it comes to holding the 37deg sealing faces together.
the only hydraulic sealing issue I have had is with the BSPP ports on the wolverine hand pump sealing. It comes with -4BSPP to 3/8NPT straight adapters. I had to narrow down the package to fit the space I installed it into so swapped them to a 90 deg bspp to jic 90 deg fitting, and the BSPP side is not wanting to seal up completely(annoying weep) I may try a little more aggressive sealing washer…

 

[Aviator4x4]

I havn’t had an issue with any of the JIC-4s used on the hydraulics yet, and they are a common use component… maybe at larger sizes but i think at the -4 size, it is a case of the difference making no difference when it comes to holding the 37deg sealing faces together.
the only hydraulic sealing issue I have had is with the BSPP ports on the wolverine hand pump sealing. It comes with -4BSPP to 3/8NPT straight adapters. I had to narrow down the package to fit the space I installed it into so swapped them to a 90 deg bspp to jic 90 deg fitting, and the BSPP side is not wanting to seal up completely(annoying weep) I may try a little more aggressive sealing washer…

Good to know. I'm 3d printing some accurate size blocks now to fit check it where I want to put it, but was considering getting some BSPP 90s from SurplusCenter when I order the pump.

What kinds of issues (if any) do you think I'd have routing this exactly as the previous hand pump if I want it to control both spare tire and cab ? I'm ordering new JIC4 hoses so hose length/current hose ends would not be an issue.

When you attached the pump to the reservoir, did you use the included gasket or something else ? Almost looks like a liquid sealant/RTV in your YT video: