Supplemental Electric Air Compressor

[jasonjc]

Why not get a bigger eng air compressor? That would seem to be easier to me.

 

[Valence]

Why not get a bigger eng air compressor? That would seem to be easier to me.

That would certainly get the most air for time (and possibly money), however, the only information on upgrading the stock engine mounted air compressor that I could find is this thread:
upgrading the LDT/LDS air compressor

And the most helpful posts from that thread:
The stock deuce air compressor:

Here's da poop on this puppy.
NSN 2530-00-863-3155 Air compressor 7.250 cfm per minute
Midland Brake P/N N5408-A
Haldex Brake Products P/N N-7502-E
Bendix Corp. P/N TU-FL)400

Well, I've got some more info. That Midland part number that terrynash gave us was an OEM part number. The Midland part number for aftermarket air compressor (same unit) is KN7010X. I got all this info from Larry at Bendix (he's part of their tech team, and was really helpful). Anyway, he told me that Bendix make an air compressor that would bolt right up and puts out 13.5cfm! Here's a link to some more info about that compressor (Tu-Flo 550). Larry told me that the part number we need is: 06205. Haven't checked prices yet.

Just talked to someone else that suggested a Tu-Flo 750 unit might also fit, and those put out 16.5cfm. Will post back when I find out for sure. Going to be expensive in either case. I've been told that remanufactured units cost over $1000 (without a core to exchange).

But said "Tu-Flo 550" or "Tu-Flo 750" installation was never attempted and unless it's basically a bolt on upgrade (which I can't tell if it really is or isn't), it's not something I want to get into.

If it helps someone, attached is the PDF "Service Data" manual for the Bendix Tu-Flo 550 (~1 MB), and the data sheet for the Tu-Flo 550 & Tu-Flo 750 (~185 KB), respectively:

View attachment tuflo_550_compressor.pdf View attachment tf550750.pdf

Update:
Attached is the Bendix Parts Catalog for the Tu-Flo 550 (~1.5 MB). From this document, on Catalog page 01-O-7, my best guess is that jesusgatos mis-typed the Part Number of "06205" should be "065205" (with cross referenced numbers of 107514 & 5000594) for a 4 hole base mount, supposed "drop-in" replacement/upgrade air compressor.

View attachment 01-O-1 new.pdf

So far it appears that 065205 is the original Bendix number with 107514 being the remanufactured number, I have not found other uses of 5000594 yet.

I did find a new "Bendix 107514" for $1000
Example, at O'Reilly's $636 + $400 core:
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/d..._-1&mn=BrakeBest+HD&mc=BBH&pt=N5105&ppt=C2432

 

[Csm Davis]

I know that y'all are still looking at additional air from pumps but I have added extra tanks to a M35 before and I don't remember if it was one or two but I believe it was two that we added. We took the tanks and mounts off another m35 and turned the mounting around 180 and it installed with ease.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[jasonjc]

Another thought is that as these pumps wear out they make less air. I rebuild might be all you need.

 

[wheelspinner]

I really don't understand, other than just wanting to do it, why you would add air compressors? You have an air compressor that doesn't run full time because it reaches the full pressure requirement of the available storage area. If you increase the storage capacity you will use the existing pump (seriously easy) and make more CFM available when you need it because of increased storage. Seems like a LOT of unnecessary work, that will have moderate, if that success. Your truck, do what you want, but extra tanks will do EVERYTHING you are trying to do at 1 / 100th of the complexity.

 

[rustystud]

As far as getting a larger air-compressor "Peashooter" and I think "Jeepsinker" also added one to their trucks and I believe they work fine. PM him and see what he did.

 

[Valence]

As far as getting a larger air-compressor "Peashooter" and I think "Jeepsinker" also added one to their trucks and I believe they work fine. PM him and see what he did.

Here is what peashooter did:
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...Build-Thread&p=1839729&viewfull=1#post1839729

And here's what Lino did, starting here:
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showth...-to-my-deuce&p=1809461&viewfull=1#post1809461

Another thought is that as these pumps wear out they make less air. I rebuild might be all you need.

True true. My original air compressor seemed to make a lot of noise and might have been contributing to the large quantity of blow by out the "slobber tube" (it puffed like a train). I purchased a used one with ~1400 miles on it from forum member red. It's a bit quieter and the "puffing" out the slobber tube is reduced.

I really don't understand, other than just wanting to do it, why you would add air compressors? You have an air compressor that doesn't run full time because it reaches the full pressure requirement of the available storage area. If you increase the storage capacity you will use the existing pump (seriously easy) and make more CFM available when you need it because of increased storage. Seems like a LOT of unnecessary work, that will have moderate, if that success. Your truck, do what you want, but extra tanks will do EVERYTHING you are trying to do at 1 / 100th of the complexity.

Well, I feel like my air compressor runs too much. I don't know what the duty cycle of the stock Multifuel air compressor is, but according to the "Service Data" manual for the Tru-Flo 550, it seems like most "Medium Duty" Bendix air compressors are rated for 25% Duty Cycle.

Besides the benefits of supplemental air on and off-road from the electric compressors, what most here don't know though, is that I park my deuce in my garage, and I want to come up to pressure faster so I can get the truck out of the enclosed space! I have used the emergency glad hand and my shop compressor to pre-fill the air tanks, but that gets old. Fast.

Even though I have a large front door, two windows, and side door, the amount of fumes in the garage makes it unusable inside for 1/2 a day after I start the deuce. I've had diagnosed carbon monoxide poisoning before (a gas oven), and I've gotten enough headaches from vehicle exhaust. I've even thought about buying one of those personal CO monitors and leaving it in the cab of my deuce (or just carry everywhere...).

https://www.amazon.com/Tough-Waterproof-Made-USA-Monitoring/dp/B004YUEPBW/

I'm not ruling out additional tanks, obviously that's the most popular option, but one thing at a time for me.

 

[jasonjc]

On the FD we had air hooked to the truck with an auto disconnect. As soon as you hit the starter the hose would shoot off.
Like this one. http://www.kussmaul.com/091-28.html

If you add two or three tanks it will take 2-3 times longer to fill.

 

[gimpyrobb]

On the FD we had air hooked to the truck with an auto disconnect. As soon as you hit the starter the hose would shoot off.

If you add two or three tanks it will take 2-3 times longer to fill.

Not if you put a pressure protection valve in between, as I stated earlier.

 

[Valence]

On the FD we had air hooked to the truck with an auto disconnect. As soon as you hit the starter the hose would shoot off.

If you add two or three tanks it will take 2-3 times longer to fill.

That's interesting, I've not heard about any such quick release or auto disconnects. I suppose the emergency side ball valve would have to be modified so it just doesn't dump the air. My M105A2 trailer is older with only 1 (service) air line.

I've thought about adding some over head tube that fits over the exhaust stack and routes to the side of the garage with an exhaust fan set on a run timer. Now that's getting complicated

Not if you put a pressure protection valve in between, as I stated earlier.

Certainly a great idea. Where would you recommend plumbing in the additional tank? So this would mean that the only "usable" air from the supplemental tank would be from <cutoff_point> to 120 PSI?

For those interested, here's a good general informational of Pressure Protection Valves (including models PR-2, PR-3, & PR-4) from Bendix (~110 KB):
View attachment pressure_protection_valves.pdf

 

[gimpyrobb]

The way I was talking about, the aux tanks wouldn't get filled with air till the original "main tanks" were full(or at whatever pressure you want). That way, you don't have to let your truck sit longer to make air pressure(with additional air tank volume).

 

[rustystud]

The way I was talking about, the aux tanks wouldn't get filled with air till the original "main tanks" were full(or at whatever pressure you want). That way, you don't have to let your truck sit longer to make air pressure(with additional air tank volume).

You can also dedicate that air-tank to what ever you want to use it's air for. Need air for your air-horns ? Get a separate tank and a protection valve and your good to go. Most all trucks and buses use dedicated tanks for the air-bags and auxiliary systems like the bus doors and wipers. The way I mounted my last tank it is dedicated to the trailer air-system (brakes) and external hoses for shop tools.

 

[Valence]

You can also dedicate that air-tank to what ever you want to use it's air for. Need air for your air-horns ? Get a separate tank and a protection valve and your good to go. Most all trucks and buses use dedicated tanks for the air-bags and auxiliary systems like the bus doors and wipers. The way I mounted my last tank it is dedicated to the trailer air-system (brakes) and external hoses for shop tools.

Mr. Rustystud, thank you. I hadn't put these two suggestions from Sparkyz911 & Gimpy together yet. I'm a little slow I guess!

Additional tanks + pressure protection valve and run the air assist from the the secondary tanks. I like this a lot. I'm still going to add the electric compressors though.

Edit:
Actually wait, no. The air assist helps me get out of the garage easier too. So it'd be the longer wait and fill up time if I ran the steering off the additional tank. Well I still want the additional tanks.

I really appreciate everyone's input.

 

[rchalmers3]

Hydraulic

Power

Steering

 

[gimpyrobb]

Hydraulic

Power

Steering

When you send me the kit, I will install it!



Have you looked at prices? I'll keep my air assist thank you.

 

[Valence]

So the Extreme Outback air compressors arrived much sooner than I had been anticipating. What a cool little unit in really great condition for Military Surplus! It'll almost be a shame to disassemble it.

Mine was slightly different than advertised (manufactured in 2009 vs 2010) with the data tag reading:

COMPRESSOR MODULE 24 VOLT
Ground Expedient Refueling System
Part No: 007-017
Manufacturer: Extreme Outback Products
Manufacture Date: Feb 2009
Lot: 11 Serial No: 110022009300
Weight: 70 LBS

I've never owned one of the full size slave port plugs, these things are HUGE!


If left assembled, it has a short connection hose with a different fitting that'd be easily changed to a regular quick disconnect fitting. This short hose actually has some slight cracking around the ends due to weathering.


It looks like the switch is a hefty one as all 44+ Amps flow directly through it. No relay.


And a 7-port manifold (and outlets at either end). With the exception of a 7th port, this appears identical to the manifold used by peashooter (that I copied) and routed to it axle, transmission, and transfer case vents.


A test run video! The popping sound is the pressure relief valve (pictured above, on the far left on the manifold), as there is no attached air reservoir.
https://youtu.be/9ZksmDHAFro

Question:
Should the air filters be replaced?
They looked perfectly clean, had a proper light coating of oil, but the outermost layer was a bit crumbly, I'm sure due to age (8 years) and the elements.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Thats pretty cool!

If it were me, I'd replace the filters. I dunno that I'd worry about using foam, I may just see whats available in the lawn mower section at blows or homedespot.

 

[Jbulach]

Thanks for the good pictures! It looks like you have breakers that you can use instead of fuses. Also, the fittings on the manifold from the compressors look suspiciously long, maybe check valves? If they are, look for a tiny hole on the compressor side that may be used to unload the compressors after shut down. I'm not a big fan of that simple style unloader, as it constantly wastes a small amount of air, but it's cheap and works. Have you considered using this setup basically as is? Mount the switch in your truck and use it manually. Maybe add a bright light for a reminder that it's on?

 

[rustystud]

Those units sound great. No need to replace brushes or compression rings ! These compressors are the very best in small electric air-compressors and parts are not that pricey. You can even install different motors. They come in 12 volt DC, 24 volt DC, 48 volt DC and 120 volt A/C . I believe they also come in 240 volt A/C but I could be wrong on that. It's been about 5 years since I rebuilt one and needed to go to their website. Just remember they have there place and as long as you use them for their intended purpose and know their limitations they will run great for years.
I have two 120 volt A/C compressors in my storage and three 12 volt DC ones as parts units. I planned on making a paint sprayer unit with one of the 120 volt ones.

 

[Valence]

Thanks for the good pictures! It looks like you have breakers that you can use instead of fuses.

I've removed one of these breakers. It appears to be a Cooper Bussmann "Short Stop" Type 1 auto reset 24V 30A circuit breaker.

More info from here:
http://www.wiringproducts.com/bussmann-short-stop-circuit-breakers

"Bussmann 'Short Stop' circuit breakers are Available in type 1 auto reset (12 and 24 volt DC options), type 2 modified reset (12 volt only), and type 3 manual reset (12 or 24 volt dual voltage use). Short Stop circuit breakers come in three mounting styles - standard right angle mounting bracket, parallel mounting bracket, and without a mounting bracket. Auto reset circuit breakers will trip in an over-current situation and will automatically reset itself after a period of time. If the fault condition is still present, it will trip again. Type 2 modified reset circuit breakers will remain tripped until the source current is removed from the breaker, at which time the circuit breaker will reset itself. This prevents the breaker from continuously cycling on and off. Type 3 Short Stop circuit breakers have a button on the end that will pop up when the breaker trips, and it must be manually pushed in to reset the circuit breaker. Circuit breakers can be protected from the elements through the use of circuit breaker boots."
​

Exact Product:
http://www.wiringproducts.com/30-amp-24-volt-bussmann-short-stop-auto-reset-circuit-breaker.html



I am really impressed at how well made this little compressor module setup is. The terminals of the breakers were coated in a dried sealant, as seen in the threads of the lower breaker. The sealant only slightly impeded the removal of the electrical connections, only requiring a ratcheting wrench the whole thread length.

Also, the fittings on the manifold from the compressors look suspiciously long, maybe check valves? If they are, look for a tiny hole on the compressor side that may be used to unload the compressors after shut down. I'm not a big fan of that simple style unloader, as it constantly wastes a small amount of air, but it's cheap and works.

I removed the manifold and inspected all sides of the fittings towards the air compressors. I didn't see any holes.



I likely wouldn't know an unloader if I was looking at it. Do you think it is contained on the air compressor itself? I removed one of the compressors:



While I was at it, I removed the air filter (that was held on by a small worm clamp). It appears an appropriate air filter replacement needs to mount on about a 1-11/16" (1.669" measured) opening. Inside the air filter, the motor was super clean.