When Do We Need Power Steering?

[glj]

Just a quick and special "thank you" gringeltaube, ALPHA2 and 1st Deuce. You collectively have provided the most "content" of useful information I have heard so far. Remember, I can build a 170 mph Stude engine blindfolded. But I will have to rely upon my 4x4 mechanic to work me through this problem, to a solution. Any specifics on who might have the parts I will need, for sale, would be much appreciated. Thanks too to Clinton, for his forthright statement of the facts. My email address is admin@snowcanyonclinic.com.

If anybody needs help of another kind (you know what I mean) call me; it's on the house to the extent we have the technology available in our clinic (i.e., MRI, CT, CT-PET, US, EEG, sleep disorders, and so on; see www.snowcanyonclinic.com).

Again, a whole lotta "thanks" to you all.

GLJ

 

[glj]

Didn't mean to push that button. Just wanted to say "thanks."

glj

 

[OPCOM]

Creature comfort, maybe if you are a Klingon.





sw

There are several terms that do not apply well to the M35.

1. comfort - the above comment applies
2. luxury - only if the alternative option is to walk, or you need some shade.
3. handling - it does not "handle" in traffic. It "behaves", or "has behavior"

I have more than enough stength to steer the truck while stopped on pavement and I assume so do most people here. I find the air assist to be a convenience that mostly saves a little time and effort, and also saves wear on the steering gear, which is something you do not want to have to replace.

I have a lump on my thumb from a whizzing steering wheel. It happened right after I got the truck. I had the wheel cranked all the way over to get into the up-hill driveway, and to do this I go over the curb slightly. The curb forced the wheel all the way to the other end. The only cause of this was failure to hold the wheel tightly. Operator error.

 

[gringeltaube]

............................
I think the most obvious change, and one that nobody has mentioned, is that you've changed the offset of the wheel, and effectively moved the tire centerline outboard by several inches, if I'm not mistaken. ....................

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Chris

Very true! Even maintaining the same backspace (10.5") of the stock M35A2 7.5x20" budd wheel it is obvious that for the 3.5" wider A3 wheel (11x20"), the offset was reduced from 5.75" to now 4". In other words the center line of the entire wheel/tire assy has moved outward 1.75".
Don't know about C&C but there are aftermarket wheels out there with as low as cero offset....! Bad enough that we needed a "reversible"11inch wide wheel to have just little over 2" offset to be mounted on the rear hubs, un-flipped, for equal track width front-rear.

In short.... more reasons to upgrade the original steering system if we want to wear wider shoes safely!

G.

 

[glj]

I have to say as i see a responce to this advise from the poster, it really is the best to me, I read it as for what it is a good ol" how to do it" by another mans view, one I happen to agree with, ALL in good faith and humor of course, but all in all, these are tactical trucks and that is what i prefer, Heat? Power steering yeesh......whats this world coming too, i say top down windshield down in December and go for it......I can drive my Deuce and park it with one hand in my 50s and proud of it, ......I take things as a challenge and go for it , but thats just me, and since this thread is about just that , we get to chime in, please do not mind...To each his own, so get what u need and enjoy that fine machine...But a little work is what these trucks are really about to me and some others...I do admit in the 813 it sure is sweet to steer that sweet heart... and in the 925 i refuse to turn on the heat, ...We will see how long that lasts, big difference in haveing a heater and putting one in i am noticing....all the best with your truck, ...!!!

Yes, I was a bit over zelous in my response to which you refer; and too tired to write at the time I wrote it. And I know that all the writing in the world will purchase nothing unless expressions of preference are respected. While I still believe that "suck it up" and "you'll like yourself better.....no, never mind. But what is it they say? Is it "The chicken's already out of the pot," or something like that? You see, the act (the acquisition and installation of very big tires) is already complete, and I am trying to compensate in order to bring the machine back to its native behavior before the change, provided that can be done without damaging the pet. Somehow this thread has become a bit schizo, going in two directions; the major contributions being an effort to help me return this rig to its native behavior (short of putting the old tires back on), but also a significant expression of personal opinion and preference. It is nice to know of others preferences, but "the cat's already out of the house." (Darn it, I'll get that expression right; just give me time.)

Thanks for your input.

gary

 

[waayfast]

Hey Dr. Gary, Welcome to the site and thanks for the very informative thread.My "other"truck is mostly a jumble of loose parts piled around aframe and cab.But since there is a clear title to it and now an engine sitting here ,it makes me think of going ahead and building the truck to drive rather than just having a stockpile parts for "Auntie M".If that were to happen,more than likely it would be built as a custom and probly incorporate PS-but not air assist.If what I want as far as safety and reliabilty aren't out there,then I will make my own system.
Since the wife is the one that makes my MV hobby possible,I feel I need to build something that she can drive also.She has driven the M35 gasser(stock-armstrong PS)but would drive one of these trucks more often if equipped with PS.
I spent a while in your area about 10 years ago--yes you have a very big back yard to play in--nice country.
JJ

 

[glj]

Hey Dr. Gary, Welcome to the site and thanks for the very informative thread.My "other"truck is mostly a jumble of loose parts piled around aframe and cab.But since there is a clear title to it and now an engine sitting here ,it makes me think of going ahead and building the truck to drive rather than just having a stockpile parts for "Auntie M".If that were to happen,more than likely it would be built as a custom and probly incorporate PS-but not air assist.If what I want as far as safety and reliabilty aren't out there,then I will make my own system.
Since the wife is the one that makes my MV hobby possible,I feel I need to build something that she can drive also.She has driven the M35 gasser(stock-armstrong PS)but would drive one of these trucks more often if equipped with PS.
I spent a while in your area about 10 years ago--yes you have a very big back yard to play in--nice country.
JJ

Nice to get to know you, JJ. Maybe we will meet one day. I spend some time in ID with small arms R & D.

Later,

glj

 

[oldshep]

i had xmls on my truck before i had power steering. after i put on the ari o matic it made a world of diference!

 

[unclemikey]

Hey Dr. Gary,

You got some really good info on this thread, worth keeping for the future. Sorry I got into this thread so late, I was just over the valcano from you in Veyo, seeing my brother and looking at some property. Had I picked up on it, I could have popped over and seen your rig. Well, maybe next time. Keep the Dull side up.
unclemikey

 

[glj]

Yes, Uncle, please stop by whenever you are over here. You will be more than welcome.

Gary

 

[baxter]

Hey Gary
Its good to see another Utahn on here I have done the same mod as Gringletaube and love it Im still hashing out a few things and I am still running 9:00 20's but what a difference. If your ever in salt lake drop a line and we can get together and you can check out the mod in person.

Vaughn

 

[glj]

Thanks, Vaughn. It would be good to get together some time. My brother lives in Sandy, so I do get up there on occasion. I will put you in my book of reminders.

Sincerely,

Gary

 

[Beerslayer]

My response to the OP's original Q: PS (any kind of assist) is a must whenever switching to radials 14.5 or wider, mounted on 10 -11" wide wheels.

This is going to greatly increasy any tendency for the truck to bump steer, as the tire encountering a bump will now want to turn the steering, rather than being in line with the steering axis and just roll straight over.

Finally I have an explanation. Thanks!

I am running the 46" radials on Clint's wheels too. I don't have any problems steering on the road. There is a hill I have to go up sometimes though that has some medium ruts. The tires do the steering. It is ALL I can do to hold the wheel and get the truck to go where I need it to.

Seems like those big tires have a lot more leverage on the steering wheel.

Bump Steer? First time I have heard the term but that sounds like what it does when it hits a bump.

 

[SGT Fritz]

were did you find the air-o-matic and what was the price?

 

[tm america]

the main time you need power steering is not when you want to turn the wheel its when you dont . if you have your hand in the steering wheel when you hit a rut it will rip your arm out the socket or brake your fingers i dodnt care how big your arms are you can deal with it being hard to turn but getting hurt is never fun

 

[red]

hey there are a few people up in utah here nice.

agreed being able to control bumpsteer is one of the best things about power steering, happens much more often offroad than on the street.

 

[saddamsnightmare]

December 6th, 2009.

SGT Fritz:

Brian R Bull on here had some last summer for about $715.00 plus shipping for new Air-o-Matics in the boxes..... I was lucky enough to be working and obtained one, and it really tamed the beast with the standard 9:00X20 NDCC's. BUT as I pointed out to the eminent doctor who started this thread, the cylinder volume and air pressures on the Air-O-Matic are fairly fixed, and I do belive that the super singles and such will cut down the assist that the units are able to give you in rough terrain situations.
No doubt about it, compared to her younger replacements, the deuce is a John Wayne kind of truck, better stay on top of it and keep your thumbs outta the wheel, or she'll let you know who the master is in this relationship. All in all, I wouldn't take a pansy --s pickup over the deuce, and I would only say that the U1300L Unimog can begin to equal her and possibly exceed her on rough terrain.

Good luck with your hunt for a steering solution,

Cheers,

Kyle F. McGrogan

 

[SGT Fritz]

So I have to find a Air-O-Matic
I drive my deuce often offroad
and I know the thumb problem
to find the part is one problem
get it shipt to germany another

 

[OneCool70Deuce]

PS seems like a must to me.

Has anyone ever researched a bolt on box that would work? Being a hotrodder and custom car builder; I'm going to take that approach first.

I will say though, my duece hasn't arrived just yet, so this is an opinion without having driven a duece yet.

is it true you have to pickup the engine to get the steering box out? WTF?

Jeff

 

[SGT Fritz]

Yes the engine has to come out or you pull the injection pump to get steering box out