Wisconsin allegedly cancelling Military vehicle titles.

[surpdlr]

If you've ever driven thru NYC, you'll know exactly why they have length restrictions. I dont even want to drive my Quad Cab pick up with 6 foot bed theu there, it is too long sometimes..

I heard that!!!! I delivered some tents to a movie set at the base of the Brooklyn bridge this spring, in my Dually 1 ton extended cab with 8' bed. Wasn’t too bad till we were leaving. I had to go through China town to get to the Holland tunnel, and got detoured down a side street. My wife thought we were going to get stuck between the double parked delivery truck and a correctly parked van, she kept telling me to get left there was no room....... We got through with about 1" or less on each side!!! All those years of my big FSR, CDL beater, Cabover Isuzu pay off some times!!!

 

[Strand]

I registered my M38 as a farm vehicle. It's mostly used to plow snow and take us to the fields anyway. I have never had a problem with the Police and the DMV

My Toyota CJ40 Land Cruiser does not classify as a military vehicle, so I got away on that. That is what I mostly drive.

 

[undysworld]

The Sunday issue of Madison's Wisconsin State Journal contained the following article :http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/local/wonder/sos/index.php?ntid=257901&ntpid=1

Paul

 

[undysworld]

Here's the text:

SOS: State law may take historic military vehicles off the road
Chris Rickert
crickert@madison.com
Over the last four years, Mike Ponty estimates he's put $15,000 into restoring his World War II jeep, a vehicle he said cost $860 when it rolled off the assembly line in 1942, not including the manufacturer's $40 rebate to the U.S. government.

But Ponty said his investment - not only of money, but of time and no small measure of heart - pays dividends every time he gets to show it off to a group of aging veterans.

"It's all worth it in one smile on their face," he told SOS.

Now Ponty, a 64-year-old retired police officer from Madison, and others who collect historic military vehicles worry that the Division of Motor Vehicles could put their passion in jeopardy.

The first sign of trouble came this summer and involved a Swiss-made military transport truck called the Pinzgauer.

In August, the DMV sent letters to the owners of the state's 29 Pinzgauers, which look a little like souped-up VW buses, to let them know the state had registered the vehicles in error and they could no longer legally drive them on state roads, said Linda Lewis, program chief of vehicle records for the DMV.

State law doesn't allow the DMV to register vehicles, such as the Pinzgauer, manufactured for off-highway use unless they have been modified to meet safety standards set out in federal law.

"We didn't know at the time what the Pinzgauers really were," Lewis said, explaining why the vehicles were registered in the first place.

The action stemmed from an effort last year by the DMV to clarify rules for what vehicles the state should and shouldn't be registering. DMV employees were told that if vehicles didn't have vehicle identification numbers marking them as safe for highway use, then the vehicles' owners needed to have proof that they had been modified to meet federal highway safety standards.

"It really wasn't a change," Lewis said. "It was really just to (do) what ... we should have been doing."

Still, Ponty worries that if the state can pull the registration on the Pinzgauers - arbitrarily, he thinks - his jeep and Vietnam-era military ambulance could be next.

"The way the law is written right now the state could come along now and say, 'We're pulling the title on this vehicle,'" he said.

Lewis said "there's no plans right now" to search state records for other vehicles that might not be properly documented as highway-safe, but DMV employees are taking a careful look at new registrations that come in.

There are likely thousands of historic military vehicles registered in the state, Lewis said, although a more accurate count is not possible because there is no separate category in the DMV's record keeping for the vehicles.

Well-known manufacturers make military vehicles - Ponty's jeep, for instance, is a Ford - and because of this, Lewis said, it's often difficult to tell just from looking at a vehicle's registration records whether it was made for civilian or military use, and, if the latter, whether it is OK for highway driving.

In an effort to seek some middle ground, state lawyers are looking at regulating historic military vehicles for specific uses, such as parades and car shows, Lewis said.

Ponty said he and other owners aren't sure of their response to the DMV's recent actions, but he hopes any resolution will keep the vehicles on the road. It's not like owners are using them to run errands, he said, as most trips are to attend parades, gatherings of other military vehicle owners or similar events.

"In a way, it's almost like looking at a piece of rolling history," he said.



FYI, Paul

 

[sailor2000]

Heck... I have used my Deuce to get groceries, run to the liquor store, pick up a few 12' 2x4's at Home Depot and all sorts of other 'errands'... I am glad that Texas is not (yet) that concerned about protecting me from myself!

 

[JDToumanian]

State law doesn't allow the DMV to register vehicles, such as the Pinzgauer, manufactured for off-highway use unless they have been modified to meet safety standards set out in federal law.

It's unfortunate that this statement went unchallenged in the article... The next paragraph should have read:

But Ponty points out that the DMV is in error, and that in fact the Pinzgauer, as well as every other current and former military wheeled vehicle, is designed to operate on roads and highways with perfect safety and all these vehicles meet relevant federal safety standards in place at the time of manufacture. Most of these vehicles, he says, spend the majority of their lives on highways. Ponty laughs, "Haven't you ever seen a military vehicle on the freeway?"

...and I'm sure the majority of Wisconsin HMV owners are not going to settle for use restrictions like "parades only" or other nonsense... There is no reason why a HMV could not be a daily driver - indeed, many CUCV owners here do just that.

Jon

 

[madsam]

State law doesn't allow the DMV to register vehicles, such as the Pinzgauer, manufactured for off-highway use unless they have been modified to meet safety standards set out in federal law.

1. I will say again, prior ownership is not a "Standard" that other vehicles have to live by.

2. They should be able to point to what "safety standards" they are referring to. Has anyone seen this list of "safety standards"?

3. If the term "off-highway" is the the problem, then Jeeps who are "Trail rated" and pickups and SUVs that have the term "4X4" on them could be suspect.

The real problem is a property rights issue, and the fact that the sate has changed, in policy, not law, the rights over its voters property. I bet that there are a lot of government agencies that have MVs like fire trucks and snow plows.

I have a 58 dodge. It's brakes and seat belts are not up to todays standards. Actually does not have any seat belts. Does that mean that it can't be registered in WI because it does not comply with current laws, if they could show them to you. No! Because it is grandfathered in.

The state should be working and serving the people not the other way around.

Keep fighting Wisconsin. If I could help you guys I would.

 

[emmado22]

Here are the saftey standards as of 1998...

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/import/FMVSS/index.html

 

[kcimb]

State law doesn't allow the DMV to register vehicles, such as the Pinzgauer, manufactured for off-highway use unless they have been modified to meet safety standards set out in federal law.

It's unfortunate that this statement went unchallenged in the article... The next paragraph should have read:

But Ponty points out that the DMV is in error, and that in fact the Pinzgauer, as well as every other current and former military wheeled vehicle, is designed to operate on roads and highways with perfect safety and all these vehicles meet relevant federal safety standards in place at the time of manufacture. Most of these vehicles, he says, spend the majority of their lives on highways. Ponty laughs, "Haven't you ever seen a military vehicle on the freeway?"

...and I'm sure the majority of Wisconsin HMV owners are not going to settle for use restrictions like "parades only" or other nonsense... There is no reason why a HMV could not be a daily driver - indeed, many CUCV owners here do just that.

Jon

Just like gun control.

 

[undysworld]

Hi all, thanks for the input and support. I've been preparing a letter to the local editor to address the misinformation in the article.

Madsam, thanks for the observation regarding prior ownership. I intend to plagiarize that comment. The other two issues are ones I raise in my letter. Thanks for the support.

And yeah, I have no intention of settling for a trailer queen status for my trucks. I bought them to use them. If the civillian market provided for the function and price, I would have bought a civilian truck - they don't.

G'night and happy aThanksgiving to all.

PU

 

[devilman96]

unless they have been modified to meet safety standards set out in federal law.

Imported vehicles over 25 years of age are EXEMPT from Federal safety standards!!!!.... Idiots!

 

[kcimb]

Was this issue ever resolved?

 

[DDoyle]

It is being resolved through legislative action. This process, while effective, is not speedy, and is better done right and once than sorta right, and over and over again.

DD

 

[lsansone]

any more info on the status of this issue?

 

[Russ]

Pinz boards seem to be quiet on the problem besides my suggestions for Wisconsin license plates, i.e. F-WISDOT. I sure hope they straighten out this public service entity and get them refocused on providing a public service!

If they are making legislative changes as indicated earlier, will they address the plight of those who have had their titles changed to "not road worthy" or is it focused on the MVs still with good titles?

 

[surpdlr]

If they are making legislative changes as indicated earlier, will they address the plight of those who have had their titles changed to "not road worthy" or is it focused on the MVs still with good titles?

On page 10 of this thread there is current info:
http://www.g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=101394

 

[Michael]

I just read the posts on the G and it really looks like WI DOT wants to ban all military vehicles made after 1968 form the roads. It also looks like one of the fixes being considered is issuing them collector plates which isn't much better in my opinion considering the limitation of use that collector plates come with.

 

[n9udl]

New site for Wisconsin Pinz owners!

We have set up a new site to rally Wisconsin Pinzgauer owners against the unreasonable actions of our Department of Transportation.

If you are a Pinzgauer owner in Wisconsin, come join us at:

http://www.wisconsin-pinzgauers.org/

Other HMV owners are welcome as well, but please keep in mind that our focus is the impact of current policy on the owners of Pinzgauers. We do value your support.

Thanks,

Tom

 

[undysworld]

The previous comments about WisDOT going after U.S. ex-military vehicles is absolutely correct.

When we first raised objections to WisDOT's actions of refusing to register a U.S. Jeep in August, '07, and cancelling Pinzgauers operating privileges in Sept. '07, WisDOT BACKED DOWN on U.S. HMVs and claimed that "there's no plans right now" to search further. (Wisconsin State Journal article Nov. 18, 2007)

HOWEVER, Based on a WisDOT memo, #BVS-06-10, dated 12/19/06, I quote:

"Manufactured for military use in the US (even if model year 1970 or newer, this vehicle has no consistent VIN or federal certification label)"

also:

USA Military market: "If vehicle was manufactured for MILITARY USE in the US: DO NOT REGISTER"

*******************************************************************

WisDOT has been less than honest about their intents and agenda.
There has been growing concern in the U.S. over gray-market vehicles (nonconforming or noncomplying vehicles). (A 1994 GAO report listed less than 300 per year, which is an average of only 6/year per state.) Rather than addressing this problem, WisDOT has instead chosen to illegally disenfranchise a SMALL group of citizens (Pinzgauer owners) in hopes of setting a precedent and thereby ASSUMING the authority to inspect ALL nonconforming vehicles. This is not legal.

PLEASE check the Wisconsin Pinzgauers site for updates. The site will be open to the public any day now. It will include instructions for contacting the appropriate Wisconsin authorities.

Thank you for your continued interest and support.

Wisconsin Pinzgauers

 

[clinto]

In the latest Issue of MVPA's "Supply Line" (March '08 ) the Editor claimed the Wisconsin situation was being corrected.

Is he incorrect?