FLU419 SEE HMMH HME Owners group

[rtrask]

i especially like the tires you have on it. what are they?

If you search for tractor tires instead of FLU 419 SEE tires you will get more hits. I got these from Simple Tire, a five years ago. I posted on these at the time I bought them. I can't remember what I paid but I will look. Here is the link BKT MP 576 to similar if not the exact same tire. They were made in India oddly enough. So far I am happy with them.

 

[rtrask]

Lesson learned, if you replace any of the four hydraulic hoses that supply the bucket or dipper cylinders, bite the bullet and replace all four.

There is a bracket that holds the bucket hoses in place that vibrated loose and I did not catch it until after the bucket hoses got pinched by the boom cylinders and started to leak, at least that is what I told myself caused those hoses to start leaking. I made a mistake and I allowed the guy that was making up the replacement hoses to use 3/4" hydraulic hose instead of the 5/8" hose that was on it originally. it was really tight, but I was able to run all the hoses through. Then the stabilizer cylinders were leaking badly, and one of the swing cylinders was leaking. replaced the seals on all 4. then the hydraulic hose for the swing cylinders was leaking. I replaced both of them. I had no leaks for a while, then the hoses for the dipper cylinder started leaking I tried to ignore it and tell myself it was not leaking that bad, but today it was probably shooting three feet. At 13 plus dollars a gallon making trench was getting very expensive.

I am in the process of removing the dipper hoses. Hint if you ever need to do this, put the SEE in a 3 point stance, and remove the pin on the cylinder side and pull the cylinder in a bit so you can get access to where the hoses connect to the cylinder. I am not sure how they got the flare fittings so tight at the control valves but mine are a real bugger to get loose, I ran out of time and have not finished yet, but I am winding up taking the outer fittings loose so I can get my crow foot in there. I wish I had a 1 1/4 flare socket that would fit. Boy they are tight.

 

[Frontier Road]

FLU419 Pros/Cons
I’ve been looking at buying one for a while and thought some input from owners might be a good idea. I’ve been living offgrid in the mile high desert for 20+ years and athough we all seem to be experiencing an extreme climate, mine traditionally features winter nights in the 13F to 20F range, early summer days over 100F, mid summer torrential monsoons with a lot of lightning and lots of mosquitoes, flash flooding, lots of clay to bog down in, and year round a very high UV index because of the elevation. The SEE’s backhoe doesn’t have a cab or cover over the operator which could be problematic in many of those situations unless one ‘dresses appropriately’.

So why am I interested in a SEE?
It’s a backhoe and loader that I could drive on most local roads and possibly haul a dump trailer without a CDL if the trailer GVWR is 4 tons or slightly less. I realize I’d be slow poking.

I have 20 acres that I want to construct some ponds and swales upon, need to do a fair bit of small mesquite tree removal, road maintenance (am a mile off paved roads), and I build earthen structures and using wheelbarrows and shovels and my back for everything is getting old. (my walls are sand bags filled with Adobe clay from my property). I also want to build cisterns and earth bermed greenhouses and also have a couple friends living offgrid who could use help with projects each about 15 miles away. The only other viable options seem to be a backhoe or excavator, plus a trailer, a bigger truck than I otherwise own (perhaps a small dump truck) and a CDL. The SEE is a cost effective alternative- so long as I don’t buy a lemon and can do most of the work on the vehicle myself.
I could also potentially do a 10-20’hours of side work each month for other offgrid folks in the mountains around me. Some of their properties cant be accessed by lowboy trailers and non 4x4 trucks. I’m involved with two local offgrid builders groups and nobody in either group has a backhoe- if I want to cater to people like me, having a Unimog that can cross running washes and washed out roads and steep off-road grades would be ideal— especially with earthmoving capability. Do you think the FLU419 would be reliable enough for this?

If I forego side work, I could get an enclosed cab backhoe + loader or tracked excavator. I’ve seen dump trucks and tractors with punctured tires from driving over mesquite limbs that shear off or were cut down and grew back a few inches but hidden by grass, whereas a tracked vehicle could wade into my landscape with less hazard but I probably won’t have the $ to buy a separate tow vehicle and trailer so would end up just using a tracked vehicle on my property if I go that route. The backhoe on the FLU419 could remove the mesquite before I drive in an area, but going off-road in the greater landscape and other folks properties might get expensive and wearisome if I lose tires.
Swales and berms as well as loading older piles of clay/dirt that have been rained on and dried hard might be more than the non-crawler gearing of the FLU419 are up for, in terms of using the Schmidt loader. How expensive is a replacement clutch- maybe I could just commit to wearing it out when loading tough materials? But I could take time with the backhoe and then move the loosened material with the loader, too. Or spend somewhat less on a used Deere 450 crawler backhoe + loader but be confined to my property, still with no cab (unless I throw another$25K at a heavily used newer model).
An FLU419 with low miles, low hours, so long as it has new seals and hoses and such SOUNDS like a better idea than a ‘common name brand machine with 4,000 hours on it’, especially because it’s potentially more versatile and fits more of the usage options I’m interested in pursuing.
BTW, I seem to be getting old and can’t stand being in 100+F for hours at a time anymore, which is a major reason for considering a backhoe with a cab… though I do own an ice vest, a bucket for water to pour over myself and a wide brimmed hat.
My max budget is 35-40K when I sell a piece of property next month. I don’t do credit so don’t have a credit rating, so I’ll have just one shot at this to hopefully get it right. (That’s my attempt at justifying my long-winded post).

 

[Sgt Jiggins]

FLU419 Pros/Cons

A few thoughts:

A SEE can handle the temperature extremes. So long as you have good batteries and the aux fans are working as they should. In 3 years of using mine, I've never had any issues starting it due to temps. And I have never even thought of using the ether injector in cold situations. I've never needed to.

The SEE can be handy in terms of avoiding a tow vehicle/trailer, yes.

Hills... hmm. I has the ass (4wd, lockers, plenty of weight) for it, but the problem with it in my experience has been getting it to the ground. Tractor tires are popular with some folks. And indeed, I'll probably be putting them on when it's time to swap out the current ones. Which somewhat limits their usefulness for on-road use. Of course, you could get a 2nd set of rims/tires and swap them out for jobs. Not terrible to do in the scheme of things.

Regardless of where people stand on the SEE, just about everybody will agree it is capable of performing quite a lot of different tasks. It does some of them quite well. I'm not sure it does an amazing job of any one task though. Compromises and all... which, in my opinion are all reasonable when viewed holistically. Those pesky Germans (I am one) tend to think things through.

What I tell people when they see it and invariably ask "what is that thing??!!" is that it's a 110HP hydraulic platform. You're going to have the maintenance that goes along with it. If you do the maintenance, it will last a very long time. If you do not/can not/are too lazy to care... good luck with that.

All that said, I may have one coming up for sale. It has all the tools plus some (major add are the 3/4" impact wrench and the auger-driver). LEDs all the way around. I've rained love down on this machine the whole time I've owned it. The tires are fully serviceable with good tread, but, as mentioned above I'm considering tractor tires if I keep it because it almost never leaves the property. And, just being honest, it went through RRAD, so whoever is the next caretaker will need to pull the dash if they want the speedo to work. Damn rodents. Otherwise, it's 100%. Thinking $20k. I do not need to sell. I'm not going to deal with lowball offers. Sorry. It is what it is.

SJ

 

[Sgt Jiggins]

I got these from Simple Tire, a five years ago.

I have no interest in nor involvement with colony tire out of Norfolk, VA other than having bought several sets of tires from them over the years for my M37, M35A3, and SEE. They're very reasonable and have an amazing selection. And if by some chance you can't find the tires you need on their flea bay store, give them a call and/or just wait a bit for them to cycle through.

 

[The FLU farm]

If you make a mount for a parasol and put bias ply tires on it, you'll likely do just fine.

Starting with a good one, of course, and Sgt Jiggins' seems to have one.

 

[rtrask]

FLU419 Pros/Cons
I’ve been looking at buying one for a while and thought some input from owners might be a good idea. I’ve been living offgrid in the mile high desert for 20+ years and athough we all seem to be experiencing an extreme climate, mine traditionally features winter nights in the 13F to 20F range, early summer days over 100F, mid summer torrential monsoons with a lot of lightning and lots of mosquitoes, flash flooding, lots of clay to bog down in, and year round a very high UV index because of the elevation. The SEE’s backhoe doesn’t have a cab or cover over the operator which could be problematic in many of those situations unless one ‘dresses appropriately’.

I am very happy with my SEE, I have had issues, but nothing major and I bought mine directly from the Army after it had set for years in the Texarkana region with vines growing all through it. I think the issues I have had are to be expected given it had probably had no maintenance in the ~ 20 years prior to showing up at my door. I was living in Denver at the time in a suburb where I had no opportunity to exercise it much so I could not shake out the hydraulic issues I am dealing with now. I have since moved to the high desert in Colorado @ 8000 feet elevation. The temperature extremes are similar but about 10 degrees cooler than yours. The SEE has never failed to start if it was getting fuel. Plan on anti-gel in the winter. The SEE has a metered either injection system and while mine is not currently working FLU farm swears by it.

I grew up on a farm, but this is the first time I have had experience with an excavation type piece of heavy equipment so take the rest of what I say with a grain of salt. The backhoe seems very strong but my property has mostly volcanic ash and not a lot of rocks. I have not found any bigger than about 1.5 cubic feet. The front end loader is not a replacement for a bulldozer. It works OK but is designed for removing the spoil that the backhoe creates. The front end loader is driven by a fan belt driven pump, and will not lift the front tires off the ground. The other issue with the front end loader is that the suspension can't be locked and the SEE kind of hunches up and is less effective than it might be. Having said all that about the front end loader, after you get used to it, it will do the job it was designed for.

 

[rtrask]

What do you think is this a really bad idea?



That was a rhetorical question. On the one hand there are still 4 wheels under it, but doing this made me really nervous. I am digging a trench to intersect this one at a 45 degree angle. I started with about 4" from the edge of the trench, but the ground caved. The only options were to try and make this work, or dig it by hand. I was really ginger in the handling of the bucket, and I got it dug out. I would not recommend this, but you do what you have to.

 

[The FLU farm]

Yep, you do what you gotta do, and it wasn't like you had to put any weight on the outrigger anyway.

 

[Crn021]

It was an extended battle, but I finally got the stabilizer cylinders separated from the rest of the FLU. I cut the pins on both sides, then some friends with a cutting torch and a smaller diameter pin showed up to help. We heated it to red hot and took turns hitting it with a 16# sledge. We eventually got both stubs out of one side. On the other side, we got the stub out of one side, but no amount of heating it up and hitting it with a 16# sledge would move it. Then my friend cut the center out of the stub that would not budge which was a lot easier than hitting it with a 16# sledge. Then for good measure we cut the stub out of the eye of the remaining rod. Done and dusted.

I will liberally coat the replacement pins with anti-seize when I put it back together. I am tempted to install some grease certs, but I doubt it will help that much. I think that my dry climate and liberal use of anti-seize will do the trick. Any thoughts?

Sorry, just reading your post. I had to replace the bucket cylinder on my 90' flu419 and the bottom pin was seized. I beat that pin with a 20lb sledge till I was sore and nothing but a mushroom pin. Slept on it, woke up the next day and made an X frame out of 4x6's I had lying around and used the jackhammer to punch out the pin. Hardest part was lifting it up/holding in place but the X frame helped. 5 or 6 hits and the seized pin was out. Again, sorry this couldn't help you but maybe the next seized pin it could.

 

[rtrask]

Sorry, just reading your post. I had to replace the bucket cylinder on my 90' flu419 and the bottom pin was seized. I beat that pin with a 20lb sledge till I was sore and nothing but a mushroom pin. Slept on it, woke up the next day and made an X frame out of 4x6's I had lying around and used the jackhammer to punch out the pin. Hardest part was lifting it up/holding in place but the X frame helped. 5 or 6 hits and the seized pin was out. Again, sorry this couldn't help you but maybe the next seized pin it could.

Unfortunately the jack hammer and tools were missing when the SEE arrived.

 

[rtrask]

What do you think is this a really bad idea?

I found an alternative approach that might have worked but it was really difficult to get the bucket to follow the right path. Put the hinge point of the backhoe at the intersection and dig at an angle. The hard part is that you have to use the swing cylinder as you are digging to get the bucket to follow the desired line. It worked ok to remove the loose spoil from both trenches but I am not sure it would be practical to do the initial dig.

The real answer is dig in one direction and don't try to join two trenches together. In my case I had no choice.

 

[The FLU farm]

I found an alternative approach that might have worked but it was really difficult to get the bucket to follow the right path. Put the hinge point of the backhoe at the intersection and dig at an angle. The hard part is that you have to use the swing cylinder as you are digging to get the bucket to follow the desired line.

Once you have the trench at least started, you shouldn't have to counter with the swing cylinders. I "dig to the side" quite frequently when it's not convenient to straddle a ditch. Also do it when digging horse graves, as it allows me to put the dirt pile away from the center of the hole, which pays off when it's time to use the grave.

Where it can get a bit tricky, and using the swing carefully is essential, is when digging parallel to the backhoe, but a few feet offset to the side.

 

[glcaines]

Today, while moving the FLU419 to a new spot while digging a trench, I smashed my passenger-side mirror. I was on a slight muddy slope downhill to the right when the FLU started sliding sideways right into a tree, smashing the mirror. It would have been much worse except the loader hit another tree, stopping the slide. The only thing smashed was the mirror, the framework was not hurt. I'm now looking for a mirror.

 

[The FLU farm]

That's a basic GM copy, which you can probably get at most any auto parts store.

 

[Sgt Jiggins]

That's a basic GM copy, which you can probably get at most any auto parts store.

Good to know! It was hell getting mine reattached last time this happened. And I'm sure it'll happen again...

 

[glcaines]

SECO has originals NOS, but not cheap.

 

[The FLU farm]

SECO has originals NOS, but not cheap.

I personally don't care about them being color matched. If I were, I'd buy a can of spray paint and make them match.
After all, that's basically what Freightliner did.

 

[Knobby57]

I need to adjust the slave cylinder on my FLU419. The TM says to tilt the cab, which I don't necessarily want to do. I haven't actually looked at the SEE yet to make a determination because of other non-related issues. Can the slave cylinder be adjusted without tilting the cab? I've performed a lot of other maintenance on the SEE without having to tilt the cab although the TM said to tilt it.

I just changed my slave cylinder and clutch master . Did not tilt the cab. Took longer to bleed than replace the parts . Now I have chicken arms so that helps

 

[Knobby57]

Even my wife has warmed up to it. I still have a lot of work to do on it. Some of the work will need to wait until I have a garage so I can tip the cab again. As I work it more hoses are springing leaks. The hoses for the dipper cylinder are leaking now. I should have replaced them when I replaced the ones for the bucket cylinder. The switch for raising the bucket and the one that races the engine quit working again. The fans to cool the hydraulic fluid don't have power to them, but work fine. I ran a hot wire from the ignition switch so that I can run the fans on hot days. The power steering hydraulics leaks like a sieve but works if I keep pouring fluid into it.

The thing is a true beast and I second glcaines statement that it is one of my better decisions to buy it.

If you lost the remote switch’s and fans you probably blew the fuse .