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Okey dokey. I’ll be watching your progress.
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M1010 fire rig to camper conversion
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Isn't the AA adapter only needed if you are staying with the 32 spline np208 case and the short adapter? If you either change the input shaft (27 spline) or get a a case that came behind a 700R4 then everything will bolt together with the tall adapter.
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chevymike
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I believe that is correct, based on what I have read.
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Tex and Cruzer, I may be wrong, and please forgive me if I am, but I believe we are discussing two different things. The Advance Adapter kit 50-6901 https://www.advanceadapters.com/products/50-6901--gm-700r4-to-gm-np208-adapter-kit-replacing-th400/ is required to mate the 700R4 to the NP208 transfer case. This is a special splined output shaft that is installed inside the 700R4. But this has nothing to do with supporting the tail-end weight of the transmission and transfer case. A separate, external structural steel "adapter" is needed that bolts on top of the crossmember and extends up and bolts between the transmission and transfer case. The OEM CUCV support adapter, furnished from the factory to support the TH400/NP208 is too short to support the 700R4. Some guys making the 700R4 swap have simply fabricated a steel spacer for the OEM adapter, which will work just fine, however the GM14038663 adapter is the correct one to use.
I hope this clarifies the issue.
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OK I have it finally figured out. The big aluminum spacer that is furnished with the Advance Adapters 50-6901 kit is designed to bolt on to the tail of the 700R4 to mimic the tail of the OEM TH400. This is so that the factory CUCV support adapter 14020861 can be re-used between the 700R4 and NP208. However, the factory CUCV support adapter 14020861 will not be tall enough, and that is why the taller support adapter 14038663 is needed. The factory CUCV support adapter 14020861 can be re-used by fabricating a spacer between the OEM support adapter and the crossmember. I guess it all depends on which crossmember a truck has, as I think the M1010 has a different crossmember than the M1008 or M1028, so you will just have to get into the project and see.
The 700R4 transmission I got from Chris at Bowtie included the Adadvance Adapters 50-6901 kit. The unit arrived from Bowtie with the big aluminum spacer already installed on the tail of the 700R4. I also have on hand the taller 14038663 support adapter. So I guess I will just wait until I install the engine/transmission as a unit, and either use my existing support adapter 14020861 with a riser spacer, or remove the big aluminum spacer from AA and use my taller 14038663 support adapter. Here are a few photos -
The 700R4 transmission I got from Chris at Bowtie included the Adadvance Adapters 50-6901 kit. The unit arrived from Bowtie with the big aluminum spacer already installed on the tail of the 700R4. I also have on hand the taller 14038663 support adapter. So I guess I will just wait until I install the engine/transmission as a unit, and either use my existing support adapter 14020861 with a riser spacer, or remove the big aluminum spacer from AA and use my taller 14038663 support adapter. Here are a few photos -
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Sharecropper, I'm pretty sure the crossmember is the same. The 4 bolt tall adapter you have is for going from the 700r4 directly to the np208. It would bolt directly to the transmission where the AA piece is. The cucv adapter is a 6 bolt tall adapter between the th400 and the np208. The AA piece makes up the thickness difference in the transfer case adapters and the shaft converts the output to 32 spline on the 700r4. You should be able to reuse your original adapter with your transfer case...
https://storage.googleapis.com/advanceadapters-com/downloads/50-6901.pdf?1573067983=1
WARWAG Credit: https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?159359-Project-m1010/page13
TH400: 24-3/8" Mount: 2-3/4" Total length: 27-1/8"
700R4: 23-3/8" Mount: 3-7/8". Total length: 27-1/4"
The W crossmember is pictured on that thread as well.
Drbeeper17 Credit: https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?132655-NP208-to-NP241-Swap-with-Pictures
Shows some pictures of the different adapters
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cruzer747
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Good to know, thank you guys! At the end of the day since the AA adapter tailpiece is installed it should bolt right up to my "tall 6 bolt adapter" that is already attached to my np208. No height spacer needed. I will be pulling the tcase and swapping in a seal kit and doing an inspection while things are out.
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Thanks! That's my dirty 700r4 sitting on the floor down stairs. Just a few pieces left to get...
Cruzer747... get the 'torque' bar that goes from the transfer case up to the bell housing while you are at it... #14
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Hey Tex - thanks for posting that image. Would you happen to have the accompanying page which shows the part numbers?Thanks! That's my dirty 700r4 sitting on the floor down stairs. Just a few pieces left to get...
Cruzer747... get the 'torque' bar that goes from the transfer case up to the bell housing while you are at it... #14
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Look above...
cruzer747
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I'm on mobile now. It looks like it's just a half inch diameter steel rod. I could probably fab something up cheaper than what I found on the net... Wonder if mild steel would be ok or if it would be too soft. Thanks for the heads up, would be a good time to add this.
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I already have that bar in preparation of my 700R4 install. It looks to me like it may just be as easy to buy the bar instead of fabricating it. The shape of the bar and hole locations are kinda funky.
chevymike
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I have read on some other forums (can't recall now which ones) that GM stopped using that bar as it was leading to cracked trans cases. Just something might want to research more.Thanks! That's my dirty 700r4 sitting on the floor down stairs. Just a few pieces left to get...
Cruzer747... get the 'torque' bar that goes from the transfer case up to the bell housing while you are at it... #14
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From what I remember on Portal the real issue was with the ones tied to the frame rail. Motor, transmission and transfer case all on rubber mounts with only the transfer case tied to a steel frame, I could see some issues when flexing the truck. This seems to more support the lower part of the case, I think it was on most civilian trucks and leaving it off saved money for the bean counters. I think with the different size and number of bolts for mounting to the rear of the transmission (700r4 (4) vs TH400 (6)) it's a good idea. There was a long thread about it and one person had a catastrophic failure on his road test.
https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?39815-NP-208-transfer-case-brace
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You need that rod. Just ask Glockfan. He recently broke his TC in half when he hit a dip and the new front driveshaft was too long and bottomed out. Have you searched Ebay? Try 700R4/NP208 rod. You might get lucky if there is one on there.
chevymike
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Well I am convinced and looking at mine, I do not have it. Just ordered one off Ebay.
cruzer747
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I managed to find one on there that included the tcase bolts for a reasonable amount, thankyou guys again for steering this in the right direction.
cruzer747
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So it begins..... I received the 700r4 from Bowtie Overdrives
and am pretty sure I have most of what I need to proceed with the install. Today I dropped the driveshafts drained and removed the transfer case and started undoing the tranny... The ujoints felt pretty good and even though the tranny kit used up all of my project dough, something is telling me I should r&r the rear pair..
The transfer case looks like it is weeping pretty good and I have a seal kit so I plan on cracking it open and resealing everything. I have never touched a transfer case before so that should be interesting. Google and youtube will be my friend here.
Peeking in the tail of the tranny revealed something I wanted to ask about, is it normal to be seeing so much busted up looking edges inside? Referring to the aluminum under the plastic gear and the bore to the right.
Also saw a bit of hard plastic/hardened seal debris which collected at the adapter joint.
One last thing of note, being that it was sprinkling all day and the ground was wet, I took a great tip from a friend and threw a spare sheet of rigid foam insulation down there and it made things a lot more comfortable than it would have been. Trying to get it operational for an Xmas trip to the snow so not too much choice on waiting for nice days to work.
and am pretty sure I have most of what I need to proceed with the install. Today I dropped the driveshafts drained and removed the transfer case and started undoing the tranny... The ujoints felt pretty good and even though the tranny kit used up all of my project dough, something is telling me I should r&r the rear pair..
The transfer case looks like it is weeping pretty good and I have a seal kit so I plan on cracking it open and resealing everything. I have never touched a transfer case before so that should be interesting. Google and youtube will be my friend here.
Peeking in the tail of the tranny revealed something I wanted to ask about, is it normal to be seeing so much busted up looking edges inside? Referring to the aluminum under the plastic gear and the bore to the right.
Also saw a bit of hard plastic/hardened seal debris which collected at the adapter joint.
One last thing of note, being that it was sprinkling all day and the ground was wet, I took a great tip from a friend and threw a spare sheet of rigid foam insulation down there and it made things a lot more comfortable than it would have been. Trying to get it operational for an Xmas trip to the snow so not too much choice on waiting for nice days to work.
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So, you received a cast aluminum flywheel cover from Bowtie? When I purchased my 700R4 from them, a cover was not included. I purchased one off Ebay but had to modify it to mate to the back of my P400 engine, which has the special girdle. See post #249 of my rebuild thread -
Kinda got carried away..... M1028 rebuild
Update - Got the new GEP vented fuel pump mounted and fabricated/installed a new fuel line; installed the coolant bypass hose and fittings; had my original 1984 Delco starter completely rebuilt and installed, along with the correct starter bracket - hot-wired 24-volt from my truck to test the...
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